Buying a grade 2 listed property

Firsttimebuyer82

We're buying a grade II listed building and we could do with some advice. The vendor has had double glazing fitted but never got permission to do it. Our conveyancer has advised us that unless they get this retrospectively that we should consider pulling out. This would mean losing over £1000 in fees, searches and surveys. Does anyone have any advice for us please?

john_white

Firsttimebuyer82 wrote: »

We're buying a grade II listed building and we could do with some advice. The vendor has had double glazing fitted but never got permission to do it. Our conveyancer has advised us that unless they get this retrospectively that we should consider pulling out. This would mean losing over £1000 in fees, searches and surveys. Does anyone have any advice for us please?

Take the advice of your solicitor, who has looked at the details of the sale, and is sufficently qualified to give advice.

BitterAndTwisted

The expenses entailed with owning a Grade II property can be considerable. If you're wary of pulling out and losing that grand suggest that you may not be cut out for Grade II ownership.

Has your conveyancer suggested anything like indemnity insurance for those replacement windows if they're not appropriate for the property and have to be replaced? It's either that or you reduce your offer by the amount of the appropriate replacements

traineepensioner

Hi Firsttimebuyer82,

Welcome

When were the double glazing units fitted? You could look at getting the vendor to purchase indemnity insurance for the lack of FENSA certificate?

I am assuming that the windows have been changed like for like...ie not replacing wooden windows for plastic one's. If the vendor has done this I would insist on retrospective planning permission before exchanging contracts otherwise it could prove expensive.

BTW Good luck with the grade 2 listed. We found it useful to get to know the local planning officer :cool:

PPPingu

john_white wrote: »

Take the advice of your solicitor, who has looked at the details of the sale, and is sufficently qualified to give advice.

I'd second that. If you want to double check you could call your council planning department...

Firsttimebuyer82

Iv spoken to the conservation dept at the council and explained the situation to her, she said they encourage double glazing to be put in as long as it is unobtrusive and has looked at the listing of the house on the internet to get an idea. She mentioned it may be possible for the vendor to get an indemnity policy to protect us from any cost incurred if the sale went through and we then had to put the windows back to how they were. Has anybody had any dealings with this sort of thing before?? Any advice will be greatly appreciated. I appologise for my grammer and spelling i know im crap.

DVardysShadow

Firsttimebuyer82 wrote: »

Iv spoken to the conservation dept at the council and explained the situation to her, she said they encourage double glazing to be put in as long as it is unobtrusive and has looked at the listing of the house on the internet to get an idea. She mentioned it may be possible for the vendor to get an indemnity policy to protect us from any cost incurred if the sale went through and we then had to put the windows back to how they were. Has anybody had any dealings with this sort of thing before?? Any advice will be greatly appreciated. I appologise for my grammer and spelling i know im crap.

Too late for an indemnity policy. These become invalid as soon as there is any contact with the council.

As for your original question, if you were ordered to put the windows back to some previous state, the loss to you would be the cost of the work. Your solicitor is giving rather blunt and over generalized advice to pull out. It really is your judgement call as to whether to pull out or to attempt to get the price reduced because of the risk you have taken on.

You should be thinking on how you view the risk of having to deal with the windows rather than thinking on the cost of pulling out. Any money you spend on the process of a house purchase is risk money, grade 2 listed or not. Grade 2 listed just means more risk.

Firsttimebuyer82

traineepensioner wrote: »

Hi Firsttimebuyer82,


I am assuming that the windows have been changed like for like...ie not replacing wooden windows for plastic one's. If the vendor has done this I would insist on retrospective planning permission before exchanging contracts otherwise it could prove expensive.

The units are stained wooden ones, one thing she did say is that we would prob have to paint the window frames as they didnt stain them back in the day.

Cheers for the advice im getting a fluffy feeling again.

planning_officer

In addition to the above, it is a criminal offence to undertake works to a listed building without first getting Listed Building Consent, if it is required. Although LBC can be granted retrospectively, the Council can still prosecute for the time during which the alterations did not benefit from any consent (although that is highly unlikely, other than in the most serious cases).

Doozergirl

Firsttimebuyer82 wrote: »

The units are stained wooden ones, one thing she did say is that we would prob have to paint the window frames as they didnt stain them back in the day.

Cheers for the advice im getting a fluffy feeling again.

I'm simply relieved that a) they aren't plastic and b) the Conservation officer sounds like a nice person.

I don't see the need to pull out. Now that conversations have been had (you have talked specifically about the house if she's checked the listing) the indemnity policy won't do the job it would be bought for.

I would ask that they get retrospective permission for them. If it involves painting them, then so what, that's a lot better than it could be. Or they replace them. Or you knock the money off the house in order that you can replace them, if that is what the conservation officer wants.

She sounds nice, IMO so I'd get talking to her (always be nice to Conservation Officers - if you can't make sure the vendors know that, keep lines of communication open with her and make sure she knows she's doing you a massive favour etc.) I say this, because a Conservation Officer can be your best friend or your worst enemy. Unlike planners and building control officers, they don't work to legislation, they work to their own whim. What they say goes.

Firsttimebuyer82

planning_officer wrote: »

In addition to the above, it is a criminal offence to undertake works to a listed building without first getting Listed Building Consent, if it is required. Although LBC can be granted retrospectively, the Council can still prosecute for the time during which the alterations did not benefit from any consent (although that is highly unlikely, other than in the most serious cases).

Having spoken to the vendor he says he got in touch with the council 10 years ago in regard to window replacement, the council told him that he didnt need LBC as long as he replaced the winows with wooden frames and not PVC. Does this ring true? How long would it take to get LBC retrospetivley? If we took on the risk would it be me that could be prosecuted even though we would be applying for LBC?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.