19 Year old - Car finance

Derivative

I give up. You're basically trying to convince me that £1500 is not worth 6 months waiting. It's not about saving money until you die. The fact you could go on holiday as well is irrelevant.

That is £1500 cold hard cash you will never see again. Gone. Any time in the future you might need money for something, you can think back to the time when you threw £1500 in the bin.

You can't just 'earn it back'. We have limited time on this earth. If you wish to convince me that throwing away 150-200 hours hard labour is a good idea, you're in the wrong place.

If you're fine with convincing someone that throwing money away due to impatience is a good idea, go ahead.

And yes, the 1 in <insert huge number> chance of being hit by a bus is surely worth worrying about. Well done. Why don't you waste your money on the Lottery and buy Premium Bonds while you're at it?

I am all for enjoying life. Any money you spend is money that can't be spent again. So it is of course important to ensure you get the maximum enjoyment from each £1, the purpose of this site!

I just think its a bit sanctimonious for people to spout on about how ridiculous it is that someone wants to purchase something on finance yet if its a different product or if it was for them the scenario would be very different because of X,Y or Z.

Taking a business loan to result in higher returns later is a good use of finance. Student loans are a good use of finance. Getting a cheap car that does A to B is a good use of finance. Buying a shiny box as a fashion statement and paying £1.5k instead of waiting a few months is not a good use of finance. It is spending beyond your means and it results in you working longer hours for less return.

If he chooses to buy one through finance or save then its down to him.

Yes, it is indeed his choice. Similarly it would be my choice if I chose to jump off the Golden Gate tomorrow, or took a sledgehammer to that bloke that !!!!ed me off down the bar the other day. I believe others are well within their rights to state their opinions.

The OP has actually been very civil throughout all of this, we just have posters that seem to think it's a good idea to let a young man throw away his hard work to a company that couldn't give a !!!!.

notafan

drbesty wrote: »

So you don't think that taking on £6k worth of debt, in a recession, at the age of 19 is maybe not the best idea? Aswell as the cost of the finance itself you have insurance at anything upto £2k per year, tax, repairs, petrol etc, all for the sake of driving round in a shiny box. Take a look on autotrader, you can get a really good car for less than half the price

I'm not saying its good or bad, personally i don't like HP but it doesn't matter.

Its not down to us say how he should spend his money, make assumptions on the value someone would give to an item, or how comfortable he is with taking on debt.

Plus he'd still have other costs you quoted with any car.

notafan

EdgEy wrote: »

I give up. You're basically trying to convince me that £1500 is not worth 6 months waiting. It's not about saving money until you die. The fact you could go on holiday as well is irrelevant.

That is £1500 cold hard cash you will never see again. Gone. Any time in the future you might need money for something, you can think back to the time when you threw £1500 in the bin.

You can't just 'earn it back'. We have limited time on this earth. If you wish to convince me that throwing away 150-200 hours hard labour is a good idea, you're in the wrong place.

If you're fine with convincing someone that throwing money away due to impatience is a good idea, go ahead.

And yes, the 1 in <insert huge number> chance of being hit by a bus is surely worth worrying about. Well done. Why don't you waste your money on the Lottery and buy Premium Bonds while you're at it?

I am all for enjoying life. Any money you spend is money that can't be spent again. So it is of course important to ensure you get the maximum enjoyment from each £1, the purpose of this site!

Taking a business loan to result in higher returns later is a good use of finance. Student loans are a good use of finance. Getting a cheap car that does A to B is a good use of finance. Buying a shiny box as a fashion statement and paying £1.5k instead of waiting a few months is not a good use of finance. It is spending beyond your means and it results in you working longer hours for less return.

Yes, it is indeed his choice. Similarly it would be my choice if I chose to jump off the Golden Gate tomorrow, or took a sledgehammer to that bloke that !!!!ed me off down the bar the other day. I believe others are well within their rights to state their opinions.

The OP has actually been very civil throughout all of this, we just have posters that seem to think it's a good idea to let a young man throw away his hard work to a company that couldn't give a !!!!.

I'm not trying to convince you or the OP do to anything, i'm stating that its up to the individual and saying who are you to judge someones personal decision.

He might not view it as throwing it in the bin - as i've said he might see it as the money it costs to 'not defer enjoyment', again a personal choice. He might think that the benefit to him in taking something on finance outweighs the interest he'll pay.

Also i agree the holiday thing was irrelevant but it was you that made the point.

The purpose of the site is different things to different people, you might see it as getting the 'maximum enjoyment from each pound' others may look at the best view tables and see who has the most competitive finance offers or 0% deals.

Again you quote taking this money to make that money is good, doing something else is bad. This is exactly what's wrong with this entire thread. You believe (genuinely I'm sure) that your reasoning is better then someone else's namely the OP who raised the issue of likelihood of getting a car on finance.

It is not for anyone else to say 'your wrong'. The fact being I don't think all your points are flawed but i think you are selective about how its used. Yes finance costs more, but if hes aware it is not down for you to convince him otherwise.

People take stuff on finance and they should consider everything involved including some of the points you raise.

According to your logic the only good use of finance is for a mortgage. Has everyone else who has took finance, creditcards, loans or other sources made the wrong decision?

The answer is you cant answer that question because there is so much more to factor in then the interest made, not that that isnt important and i've never said it wasn't but you cant make a sweeping statement that implies someone using finance for a car would be a fool to do so. If debt is used with the knowledge of how it works, what it costs and with your affordability in mind then it can be a very positive thing.

You might not like finance for a car purchase, others might find it convenient and useful it doesnt necessarily mean they havent fully considered what's involved.. Different courses and all that.

Derivative

notafan wrote: »

According to your logic the only good use of finance is for a mortgage. Has everyone else who has took finance, creditcards, loans or other sources made the wrong decision?

From a rational point of view, yes. There are very very few reasons to have a balance on most credit cards (0% excepted) ticking away. The only real one I can think of is to stop an imminent eviction, and in those circumstances it's very likely a default is on the cards anyway.

As I stated earlier, loans which have a net financial benefit are of course advantageous. Student loans are arguably more beneficial than a mortgage - higher earning potential AND lower interest rates than an ISA.

"Look at those people over there, they're doing it" doesn't really stand up as an argument. You seem to believe that 'getting it NOW' is more important than financial security. Our views are incompatible and as such this discussion will not bear fruit in my opinion.

edit: Note that a key point here is that it's not 0% finance. If it was, I see no problem (besides the obvious do you need a shiny car, but then that is a fair enough choice.)

notafan

EdgEy wrote: »

From a rational point of view, yes. There are very very few reasons to have a balance on most credit cards (0% excepted) ticking away. The only real one I can think of is to stop an imminent eviction, and in those circumstances it's very likely a default is on the cards anyway.

As I stated earlier, loans which have a net financial benefit are of course advantageous. Student loans are arguably more beneficial than a mortgage - higher earning potential AND lower interest rates than an ISA.

"Look at those people over there, they're doing it" doesn't really stand up as an argument. You seem to believe that 'getting it NOW' is more important than financial security. Our views are incompatible and as such this discussion will not bear fruit in my opinion.

edit: Note that a key point here is that it's not 0% finance. If it was, I see no problem (besides the obvious do you need a shiny car, but then that is a fair enough choice.)

In exactly the same way just because your not doing it or others aren't doesn't mean its wrong or bad either. It works both ways.

And many people don't just use credit cards because they are 0%
I've not said i believe getting it now is more important then financial security. I just don't buy 1) that getting a loan makes you financially insecure or 2) that it isn't the right option for some people.

Just how much unsecured debt aside from mortgages is outstanding in the country? How much is not at 0%? Is everyone with debts that aren't 0% ridiculous?

Not everyone uses credit cards just because its 0%. Its pretty stupid to ignore a vast amount of reasons why people take on credit and judge that its the wrong decision just because there's interest involved.

What I do believe is there are valid reasons to take on debt - and the reasons are specific to an individual - some of which you may disagree with but it doesn't matter because its neither your decision or place to criticise based on your personal opinion, an opinion which fails to take into account someone's circumstances.

You might well be one of the few that doesn't use credit that costs interest (excluding mortgages for the reasons you mentioned) and that's fair enough. But there are many people who have made informed decisions about credit, the costs, affordability and positives and negatives involved. Like I keep saying time and time - good for you, but it doesn't make that right decision for everyone else.

0% or not why the decision on the guy wanting a 'shiny new box' still has nothing to do with your values and everything to do with his own.

Derivative

notafan wrote: »

Just how much unsecured debt aside from mortgages is outstanding in the country? How much is not at 0%? Is everyone with debts that aren't 0% ridiculous?

EdgEy wrote:

"Look at those people over there, they're doing it" doesn't really stand up as an argument.

Are you really telling me what "the majority" does is a good avenue to take?
Do we live in the same country? In fact, the same world?
Do I really need to state the countless examples of irrational behaviour of 'the majority'?

The positives and negatives are pretty clear cut.
Positives: get stuff now
Negatives: lose net worth

For the extra £1500 you can buy a car outright, and then buy the flash one later. Now you have two cars, and the plus point is, your flash one is brand new, x months/years on. It really is a no brainer.

By choosing to weigh up "individual circumstances" you're neglecting the fact that you could use that to rationalize anything. Relativism has its places...

Peelerfart

A very good debate guys,I'm enjoying this



PF

notafan

EdgEy wrote: »

Are you really telling me what "the majority" does is a good avenue to take?
Do we live in the same country? In fact, the same world?
Do I really need to state the countless examples of irrational behaviour of 'the majority'?

Are you really telling me the best avenue is what the minority do?

Do i need to state the irrational behaviour of the minority?

The thing thats clearly obvious is that you are only interested in seeing it from your point of view, you present your side as the its the only way, when really its entirely his choice and there is a flip side which might well suit him better.

I'm sorry you can't see it from both sides, whilst as I've said you demonstrate some good points you fail to understand the issue from another perspective.

Derivative

Very clever.

The majority you're referring to are essentially people living on the edge of a knife with hardly any savings to dip into.

If you want to aspire to this, if you want to be one of these people, feel free.

My side is not the only way. It's simply the most rational way, based on the fact that having a secure future relies on having a decent savings pot and not living a lifestyle fuelled by loans.

Emotionally going for the car is a decent choice. It'll all be good fun, then you'll be a bit miffed in a few years when your deposit just doesn't stretch far enough. Just like my cellphone. All good and well for a few months. After the fact you really don't remember how good it felt to have the material things, not really. You feel the impact on your finances for the rest of your life..

notafan

EdgEy wrote: »

Very clever.

The majority you're referring to are essentially people living on the edge of a knife with hardly any savings to dip into.

If you want to aspire to this, if you want to be one of these people, feel free.

My side is not the only way. It's simply the most rational way, based on the fact that having a secure future relies on having a decent savings pot and not living a lifestyle fuelled by loans.

Emotionally going for the car is a decent choice. It'll all be good fun, then you'll be a bit miffed in a few years when your deposit just doesn't stretch far enough...

IN YOUR OPINION! - and the vast majority of what you say is an assumption.

Your 'one size fits all' approach to credit simply does not wash.