fraudulet tenants and other bits and bobs

ets99

Hiya all.

ok, i had an old lady and man move into my small flat. An assured tenancy was signed (not assured short hold). They gave me a month's rent in advance.

i had diverted my post with royal mail for a period of time. to my horror, i received a gas and electricity contract in my name welcoming me on board. the direct debit was set up in the tenants name. The opening metre readings they had given were substantially higher than the closing metre readings with my previous gas and electric company (clearly by giving false increased metre readings they were trying to avoid units). what is further shocking is that the direct debit they set up was not going to cover the consumption throughout the year (since i know having lived there for 3 years what is the norm). This would have undoubtedly resulted in a balance which they clearly had the intention to avoid (why else set the contract in my name without my knowledge and consent?).

i set matters straight with the electricity company and managed to get the contract but into the tenants name.

Two months before the end of the tenancy the tenants begged me to renew. Eventually i decided i would renew. On the eve of expiration of the original tenancy, i made it clear to the tenants that what the did with regard to putting contracts in my name was clearly fraud and i did not expect the same to happen again. Abruptly the tenants vacated the flat the property the same eve to my shock. They asked me to attend the property by travelling 30 miles with a new born baby in the dark to carry out an inventory check to which i naturally said no.

Since they had paid a months rent advance, there was nothing to give back since they had not supplied me with a month's notice to leave given they had extended the tenancy.

Further, they did not give my keys back and i had to break the locks to enter property and to my horror, it was left in a dirty state. The were items damaged and missing. I took photos and was able to get an independent estate agent to witness the general condition.

i have now received several letters at a relatives address stating that the tenants will be taking me to the county court for not lodging the monies with the tenancy deposit scheme and that they intend to sue me for three times! i thought that because it was an 'assured' tenancy only, i didn't need to. any advice would be appreciated.

brit1234

All comes with the ups and downs of being a landlord.

This is a good incident to demonstrate what can go wrong to the people unable to sell at the price they want and considering renting. Its not all peaches and cream.

Thanks to the OP for the story.

diable

Small claims court, coded locks, clean up bill, removal of !!!!. replacement of carpets etc etc etc

MadameCholet

Did they even give you a deposit? It would appear from your post that they only paid you that months rent when they moved in

N79

ets99 wrote: »

. An assured tenancy was signed (not assured short hold).

Two months before the end of the tenancy the tenants begged me to renew.

OP - there is a contradiction between these two sentences. An assured tenancy renews automatically and indefinitely (unless a court orders possession for a breach of contract) on a periodic basis - so a T would have no need to seek their LL's permission to renew.

BornAtTheRightTime

It is not uncommon for utility companies to get the name and/or address wrong on new contracts, let alone calculate the correct direct debit monthly amount from the start. Did you give your tenants any information on how much you had been paying per month? I was billed for years for supply to an address they apparently plucked out of the air and took 3 years to get the monthly DD amount reasonably accurate, but they still managed to read my meters and send the bills to the correct address.

Seems to me you could have made several assumptions based around a lack of trust of your tenants which could easily have been explained by incompetence by utility companies. This being the case, you sent the tenants a message of distrust on your part which soured the relationship. They wouldn't be the first people to artifically inflate the first meter readings either - but that's a matter for the utulity companies who expect some variation between customers in any case.

They had to beg you to stay after paying their rent on time each month? Then you gave them a lecture which from their point of view was totally unjustified, sending a further message that you are a dreadful landlord and one to get away from. What else were they to do at this point?! They grabbed their things and left to go stay with relatives at the last moment before they became bound into another 6 months with the landlord from hell...

There are always two sides to a story. Not saying my version is acurate but it is a possibility...

wannabe_sybil

You could point out to them that if they file a claim then you would be happy to file a counterclaim for cleaning, repairs and redecorating beyond wear and tear, lack of notice, replacing locks etc. Put in as big and intimidating list as you can manage for the letter (but not necessarily any counterclaim)

Good luck

G_M

Did you take a deposit and if so, are you in Eng/Wales and did you place the deposit in an approved scheme? From your post, no deposit was taken! If it was, you are (technically) 'stuffed'. Try lodging it in a scheme now!

I very much doubt this is an Assured Tenancy. Just writing stuff on a contract does not make it so. Otherwise landlords would all write 'lodgers agreement' on their contracts to avoid AST obligations.

Was the new tenancy contract signed by both sides? If not, then they simply moved out at the end of their fixed term and owe you no rent. Repay the rent thy overpaid. If they DID sign a new agreement, then counterclaim for rent for the next X months (however long the tenancy contract is for).

Since you had resolved the utility bills issue (common problem) why did you cause unecessary friction by accusing them of fraud? Not likely to engender good tenant relations. The advice here would have been: either you distrust them in which case don't renew, or you're happy with them in which case don't antagonise them!

Did you do a check-IN inventory and did they sign it? Without this, you cannot prove anything is missing or that any damage/dirt was not as it was at the beginning - so you cannot hold them responsible. Unlikely a judge will find in your favour.

Did you inform them when you would be doing the check-out inspection and invite them to be present?

Have you got an address for them? Maybe from the references you took at the start? (you DID take references/credit check no?!) If so, have you written to them explaining what you are claiming, and enclosing receipts/quotations from contractors (locksmith, cleaner etc)? They have not yet gone to court, so try to resolve this - 1) protect any deposit if you can 2) justify any damage claim etc with paperwork 3) explain any rent charges enclosing copy of the signed renewal contract

mlz1413

ets99 wrote: »

Hiya all.

ok, i had an old lady and man move into my small flat. An assured tenancy was signed (not assured short hold). They gave me a month's rent in advance. so didn't pay a deposit, if they paid their rent up-to-date then you do owe them their advance rent back.

i had diverted my post with royal mail for a period of time. to my horror, i received a gas and electricity contract in my name welcoming me on board. the direct debit was set up in the tenants name. if the DD was in tenants name it doesn't seem like intended fraud to me.
The opening metre readings they had given were substantially higher than the closing metre readings with my previous gas and electric company (clearly by giving false increased metre readings they were trying to avoid units). did you ring in your closing reading? did the utilities say new tenants had give those new readings? do you have PROOF or this this your ASSUMPTION?
what is further shocking is that the direct debit they set up was not going to cover the consumption throughout the year (since i know having lived there for 3 years what is the norm). This would have undoubtedly resulted in a balance which they clearly had the intention to avoid (why else set the contract in my name without my knowledge and consent?). truely shocking, not paying enough DD per month! (rollseyes)

i set matters straight with the electricity company and managed to get the contract but into the tenants name.

Two months before the end of the tenancy the tenants begged me to renew. is this because you sent a letter saying you did not want to renew? did they beg or did they just ask? courts aren't interested in emotion just facts. Eventually i decided i would renew.

On the eve of expiration of the original tenancy, i made it clear to the tenants that what the did with regard to putting contracts in my name was clearly fraud and i did not expect the same to happen again. Abruptly the tenants vacated the flat the property the same eve to my shock. why do this on the eve of the old AST, why not at renewal? If I got a strip torn off me for something I didn't think I'd done 6 months earlier, I would pack my stuff up and leave too.

They asked me to attend the property by travelling 30 miles with a new born baby in the dark to carry out an inventory check to which i naturally said no. they asked you said no, having a baby is nothing to do with a business arrangement. Did you offer a different day and time?

Since they had paid a months rent advance, there was nothing to give back since they had not supplied me with a month's notice to leave given they had extended the tenancy. depends on if new AST was signed if so they owe a lot more than one months rent, but you should be actively re-marketing to prove you are migating your losses.

Further, they did not give my keys back and i had to break the locks to enter property did you ask for them, did you arrange a leaving inspection for a different day so you could get the keys? and to my horror, it was left in a dirty state. The were items damaged and missing. I took photos and was able to get an independent estate agent to witness the general condition. if you didn't take a deposit then you left yourself open to this.

i have now received several letters at a relatives address stating that the tenants will be taking me to the county court for not lodging the monies with the tenancy deposit scheme and that they intend to sue me for three times! i thought that because it was an 'assured' tenancy only, i didn't need to. any advice would be appreciated.

if you took a deposit and didn't protect it that is your failing, you thought wrong about assured tenancies.

Advise - if you're going to be shocked and left in horror at the things written above don't carry on being a LL. If you can cope having a business and a baby and decide to carry on please try finding out what your LL obligations are including advising the tax office of your extra earnings.

Soot2006

Since they had paid a months rent advance, there was nothing to give back since they had not supplied me with a month's notice to leave given they had extended the tenancy

Do you mean they paid each month in advance; i.e. on 1st of the month to cover that month?
Or that they paid an additional month in advance; i.e. a "deposit" by another name ...

They don't have to give you any notice at all if they leave before the contract expires, which you said they did (unless they'd already signed the new contract).

ets99

the tenants paid one month in advance for the month and they paid another month as an advance. The fact is they signed a new contract and there was paperwork going back and forth so this substantiates the fact that they were planning on staying further. On the back off their desire to stay, i renewed my tenancy with my landlord. You question why did i bring up the allegations of fraud in the eve that the first agreement was coming to end - this is because i just wanted to ensure that they were no planning to do anything like this again. With regard to them departing on that eve, well that's their story. I went to to the property several times thereafter and somebody was clearly at the property but did not open the door. My keys were not returned and eventually, it looked like the property was vacant. Since they had not given me the keys back i then had to break the locks.

With regard to utility bills, transferring gas and electricity supply to new supplier (the previous supplier had closed down my old account when i settled it the day i moved out) AND pretending (deception) to me AND providing false information such as my old land line number (obtained through opening mail in my name) AND giving a false increase meter reading (to avade units) is deception and identity fraud. Further, a lot can be done with utility bills in someone else name. Had i not found out in error that they had entered into a legally binding contract using my name, god knows just how much debt they could have left me in. I had stipulated clearly in the tenancy the tenant was to keep all bills in their name and the landlord would not be responsible. The utility company have told me to report matter to the police and are currently investigating. So sorry, I don't agree with you.


Yes being a landlord is a tough job with self assessment (yes i file 6 each year), losses made etc. but things could be that little bit easier if you were dealing with genuine honest people in life.

Thanks peeps for the advice. btw the advance is now lodged although the scheme i've lodged with says they don't usually accept advance rents as they do not consider it to be a deposit. The other two scheme however do accept.