Help needed. Sorry long winded...

squoog

Please can anyone answer a few questions about a mess I am in
I know I have been stupid and will have to pay the consequences, but just want to get everything right.
Back in 2009 I let a property to a family, they were found through an agency as I live 350 miles away. We met a couple of weeks before they moved in and we agreed they would pay deposit and 1st months rent to agent as we were leaving for 2 weeks holiday the day before they moved in.
We went away and ended up being away for a month as all 4 of my children contracted measles and we were quarantined in the States, 1 child ended up in ICU as he has underlying health probs. All in all very stressful, we arrived home a month later with insurance issues to deal with and 6 days later my son got flu. It was at the beginning of the swine flu outbreak and we had nurses arrive at our house in masks and gowns to test him. again, all very scary.
I received a cheque from the agents for the rent and deposit which I banked about 6 weeks after they moved in.
I left the deposit scheme to my husband to deal with...
The tenants moved out in Sept. 2010, they had given notice for the end of sept but texted one night a couple of weeks early to say they were moving the next day. I texted back to ask about keys and they said they would leave them with the agent. They didn't do this and I had to chase them by text to send them back to me, which they eventually did. We had someone look at the house which smelt terribly of dogs and urine, and we arranged to have carpets cleaned. We texted to ask would they be in agreement to pay the £100 out of their 495 deposit.
We never heard back, and I then lost my phone and her number. We then decided to send the deposit to the property which was now empty, assuming they would have redirection on their mail.
As I had a particularly difficult few months with my son being ill, I did not visit the property until Feb 2011, where I found piles of mail including our letter and cheque.
A week after I returned, I received a money claim for a deposit of £790 (?) (Deposit was £495) and 3 x 790 for failure to use deposit scheme.
I thought we had, but apparently not, my husband thinks he tried but as it was more than 2 weeks since tenancy began, it wouldn't accept it and he didn't follow that up.

So, we are guilty, although we tried to send deposit back. They say I didn't respond to texts, letters and phone calls but didn't receive any...
My questions are :
1. Is it inevitable that we will pay 3 x deposit + deposit or is it discretionary?
2. Is there any point in detailing our extenuating circumstances as part of our defence?
3. Is it a problem that they are claiming the wrong deposit amount?
4. Does it make any difference that they never asked for the deposit scheme details whilst they were living there?

I had no desire not to return their deposit, life just overwhelmed us and I was not as on top of things as I should have been. I can accept that we have got our fingers burnt, but obviously can do without paying an extra £1500 if at all possible.

If you can offer any advice, I would be extremely grateful.

F_T_Buyer

1. Yes it is inevitable
2. No
3. Yes, you can refer to you landlord/tenant contract which would show the deposit amount.
4. No

Really this is why you pay an agent to make sure all the necessary was completed. There is no excuse for not protecting the deposit, and you will have to pay three times the deposit.

It sounds like you have had a difficult few months, but that is no excuse. I'm sorry, it is harsh but true.

The best you can do now is prove the damage done, so you can deduct the £100 for the carpets. Of course you will provide photos, receipts of work done and the initial inventory when the tenant moved in.

blackshirtuk

1. it is for the judge to decide if they take it to court, but he is duty bound to award 3 times deposit.
2. No harm in trying but keep to the facts.
3. Yes, you can refer to you landlord/tenant contract which would show the deposit amount
4. no

Try to sort it out before court, i would offer the 495 back. and an apology !

there are lots of posts on this subject, do a search. i seem to remember some about loopholes for landlords where if the deposit is protected when it goes to court the judge will just award repayment. but please do your own research as i may have misunderstood!

seraphina

blackshirtuk wrote: »

Try to sort it out before court, i would offer the 495 back. and an apology !

I doubt they'd settle for that -the tenants are aware that they are *legally entitled to* 3x deposit amount already.

I'm sorry that the OP has been through the mill recently, but if I were you given the facts here I'd try and get the whole lot sorted ASAP. Quickest way to do that is pay the 3x deposit and you should never hear from them again. Going to court will only be more expensive and more protracted.

Voyager2002

Do you have any claim against the agents for the failure to protect the deposit?

anselld

3x Deposit is absolutely NOT inevitable.

It is not too late to protect the deposit. Put it in a scheme before the court hearing - this will negate the 3x deposit claim. Then just focus on providing any evidence you can of deductions for damages.

silvercar

anselld wrote: »

3x Deposit is absolutely NOT inevitable.

It is not too late to protect the deposit. Put it in a scheme before the court hearing - this will negate the 3x deposit claim. Then just focus on providing any evidence you can of deductions for damages.

Agreed. Pop over to landlordzone forums where you can get detailed advice from people who have done exactly the same. I think you will end up with two options for an easy life. Either return the deposit in full now, so there will be nothing to protect and court cases indicate that they will not be awarded anything or protect the deposit now and pursue for the correct retention of deposit based on the state of the place at return.

N79

You must either protect the deposit or return it to the Ts in full before the date of the court hearing. If you do this, then you will have a defence to the 3x claim (Tensia vs Universal).

You should defend the additional claim (above 495) using the tenancy agreement (assuming it has the deposit amount stated) or the receipt you provided for the deposit. If you have neither then try to gather any evidence you have that the deposit was only 495 as in the circumstances the court is likely to be very skeptical of your claims (as you have, demonstrably, acted unlawfully so the court will likely give you T, who has not broken the law like yourselves) the benefit of the doubt.

Quite honestly, you should drop your claim for damage. On top of your unlawful acts it will just make the court see you as a money grabbing LL when you need to come across as an honest, hard working if accident prone business person. Sacrifice the GBP100 to increase your chances of avoiding a greater penalty! I would also avoid mentioning that you tried to protect the deposit as this leads down an obvious hole for you from which you will struggle to extricate yourselves. Of course, if asked by the court then you must tell the truth.

You circumstances are not really relevant. LL's are business and the court will treat them like a business. Also, don't mention rubbish like you point 4. You had a legal obligation which you failed to discharge. Trying to blame the T by saying that they never reminded you will just anger the court and may well make the judge work very very hard to punish you!

ladymarmalade1970

I have been taken to court for a deposit that wasn't registered and i didn't have to pay 3 X the amount. In fact, the tenant had to pay costs for taking me to court and this was taken out of the deposit. I was going to give it to him back anyway and had even offered him a cheque (£50 short of what he felt he should have had and i felt i was being MORE than fair given the circumstances) but he threatened me with court so i said do it then. He was a bully, one of the reasons why i refused to renew his tenancy.
It ended up costing him in the end. He should have just taken the cheque i offered. I have to say though, this was a very stressful time for me but i hope it makes him think before doing the same to his next LL.

squoog

Thank you all for your replies.
I am not planning to ask for damages now as I realise it will complicate things, but the letter that we sent to them with the returned deposit does talk about that. We have that letter now to prove that we did try to send it to them, + postmarked envelope.
I have tried to do some research but it does seem unclear from the LL perspective.
I do not blame the tenant re ' not reminding' us but have read something about the situation being different if the agreement is no longer current.
I would send back the full deposit now as there is an address for the tenant on the money claim, but also don't want to wind them up and as you say they will be aware that they will get 3 x if they pursue it. But then I guess I have nothing to lose...
We have tried to protect the deposit recently but it won't accept it as tenancy has ended. I will try other schemes too.
I really appreciate all your comments and for taking the time to reply.

N79

Its not clear in your posts if you tried to return the full deposit or the remainder of the deposit minus the GBP100 deduction. Only attempting to return the entire deposit counts here.

Could you also indicate how you identified the Ts address - clearly they never received you cheque if it was for the full deposit? I suspect you will not be able to protect the deposit now so you will have to return it in full. Notify the court once you have done this and start preparing your defence. Don't expect the court to know what to do - you will need to tell them.