Legal situation for unnecessary repairs

jonny19719

Bit of a long story so I'll paraphrase and bullet point to capture all the facts.

we have a 2006 Audi which we bought second hand along with a life time warranty just under a year ago.

Three months ago various warning lights started flashing on the dash board, example hand brake on, boot open, the alarm would go off when we were not using it, the cruise control would stop working, the windows locked shut....you get the picture however these faults were there one day and gone the next.

We took the car to Audi (main dealer) who diagnosed a faulty ECU, this was replaced - the warranty company paid out most of the money except for diagnosic charges and all was well for 6 weeks then it did it again.

Second time to the garage and they replaced a fauly ignition switch which was supposedly causing power issues again the warranty company paid for most of the bill

Four weeks later and we're at square one with alarm going off, warning lights flashing, cruise control and indicators not working ect.

Third visit to the dealer and now they want to charge us for more diagnostics (£99 hour which the warranty does not cover) the garage have also warned us that the problem could be in the wiring loom and that diagnosics could take many hours (open cheque book)

I asked them to refund the money for this first two repairs which have not worked, but they have claimed that these repairs were needed as the items were faulty....legally where do I stand on this how can I prove that the first two repairs were ineffectual it's my word vs' theirs.

In total they have had the car for 7 days in the last three months and I'm now facing an open cheque book scenario because the warranty company do not cover diagnostic fees...In my mind a garages inability to diagnose a probelm should not be passed to the consumer, do other garages do this.

Final question who is the best legal body to consult for further advice CAB, trading standards or a local solicitor.

Thanks
John

pendulum

Sometimes when troubleshooting a car problem, you come up with a theory for what is wrong, and then the only thing you can do is replace that part. If that doesn't fix it, you repeat the process. Unfortunately the car owner (you) still has to pay for these attempts even if they do not fix the problem, unless you can show that the garage didn't exercise reasonable skill whilst doing their work (ie, they carried out work that a reasonably skilled person in that field would know was unnecessary).

If you've got loads of different wacky things going wrong with the car at the same time, it could have been the ECU. They changed it. I can also in a roundabout way see how it could have been the ignition. It doesn't look sound like they have carried out work that was obviously unnecessary so I think you will struggle to show your entitled to a refund.

jonny19719

Thanks for the reply I don't believe the garage is being malicous but as you say working through the problem eliminating parts till they find the fault, the issue I have is that they have access to my wallet whilst they go through this process. For me it's a question of ownership, their product has a fault which has developed through no action by the user (me) they have had two attempts and 7 days to fix it...it's still broken..so why I'm I paying the price?...in my world they should be fixing the problem now without incurring the diagnostic charges, I'm happy to pay for the repair and the labour which goes with it, but not happy to pay for them to find the fault.

Imagine if everyone did this..you want to get your front room decorated, so you call a painter out to quote for the job...you don't like the painter or his quote but now to have to pay for his time whilst he visited you and prepared the quote..:eek:

patman99

How come they could not find the right fault with the initial check?. These days they just plug in a computer, select the make an model then hit 'go'. 45 minutes later, and the computer will have carried-out a full diagnostics check (including wiring loom). I know, I had such a 'nose to tail' electronics check-up on my car not long ago.

These checks are a good money-spinner for garages as they are fully automated, and the mechanic just plugs the diagnostics computer in, leaves it to run, then looks at the faults list it generates.

I would suggest you look for an independent VAG specialist to do the diagnostics bit.

jonny19719

When they plug the diagnostic machine in it reports dozons of faults each time, no one thing sticks out, 1st repair was a new ECU which cleared the faults, second was a 'faulty' ignition barrel which cleared the faults...now it's back to square one :mad:

atrixblue.-MFR-.

patman99 wrote: »

How come they could not find the right fault with the initial check?. These days they just plug in a computer, select the make an model then hit 'go'. 45 minutes later, and the computer will have carried-out a full diagnostics check (including wiring loom). I know, I had such a 'nose to tail' electronics check-up on my car not long ago.

These checks are a good money-spinner for garages as they are fully automated, and the mechanic just plugs the diagnostics computer in, leaves it to run, then looks at the faults list it generates.

I would suggest you look for an independent VAG specialist to do the diagnostics bit.

some parts are not that plummed in to the ecu so may not show anything whatsoever.

OP you give them a specific time scale. work out what labour charge is, then specify them a limit to wich you deem is sufficiant.

45mins to an hour is about the time to go through the engine bays loom. after this time scale, they have to call you, you can make a decision as to whether you want to inspect what they have done in that time or trust them to thier word, make it plain that during that hour they must do their best to find the fault, or you will have no choice but to take else where and pay them their dues, the prospect of losing that custom may shift them into checking and diagnosing it.

Hammyman

patman99 wrote: »

How come they could not find the right fault with the initial check?. These days they just plug in a computer, select the make an model then hit 'go'. 45 minutes later, and the computer will have carried-out a full diagnostics check (including wiring loom). I know, I had such a 'nose to tail' electronics check-up on my car not long ago.

BWAHAHA. I know of one fault code that can be one of FIVE things.

And the electronics can only take a best guess. Many faults can be detected by the diagnostics as something else. For example, running rich can be caused by several faults not detectable by electronic sensors.

Homersimpson

Hammyman wrote: »

BWAHAHA. I know of one fault code that can be one of FIVE things.

And the electronics can only take a best guess. Many faults can be detected by the diagnostics as something else. For example, running rich can be caused by several faults not detectable by electronic sensors.

Absolutly correct, i've got a friend who has a 55plate corsa which throws up a misfire on cylinder 2 fault code every 3 months, runs badly for a round 10seconds, puts the check engine light on and then runs fine. I've changed the coil pack and checked everything, swapped plugs and injectors around etc but I can't find anything wrong and can never see the car reproduce the fault.

I'm afraid that most people think that you can just plug the car in and it will tell you whats wrong with it but thats not the case. It usually tells you something like, lambda sensor mixture too rich but is this:-

A faulty lambda sensor
An ECU fault over fuelling
A coolant temperature sensor telling the engine its colder than it is
A fault injector
Partially Blocked Airfilter
Faulty vaccum hose
EGR Valve fault
The list goes on.

I feel for the OP, the problem is that their hourly rate is high and you could soon spend a grand on diagnostics before you even fix the problem.

Strider590

jonny19719 wrote: »

When they plug the diagnostic machine in it reports dozons of faults each time, no one thing sticks out, 1st repair was a new ECU which cleared the faults, second was a 'faulty' ignition barrel which cleared the faults...now it's back to square one :mad:

Take it to the dealership (who's main purpose is to sell cars), they get a thick 17 year old ex-crapfit tyre fitter who's vocabulary only stretches as far as "tyre's". Give him a big rubber laptop and ask him to find a fault......

Beeep beep beeeep beep beep beep beeeeeeeeep..... ECU failure!!!

Change ECU, fault comes back.

Beeep beep beeeep beep beep beep beeeeeeeeep..... ECU failure!!!

Change ECU, fault comes back.

Beeep beep beeeep beep beep beep beeeeeeeeep..... ECU failure!!!

Change ECU and I think you see the pattern here.


Take it to a specialist, out comes the multimeter and bobs your uncle it's a corroded connector to the ECU's live feed underneath the fuse box (example estimated guess).