All crashing down

pamstretched

Everyone's on our case at the moment

One
Sued by a company never heard of - Debt buyers apparently
Sent the bailiffs round - unfortunately they know us personally!
They were very nice and agreed a weeks breathing space to appeal the case.
Received letter today threatening commital to prison for ignoring the bailiffs from the debt collector company although we are in contact with the bailiff (office and personal mobile)
Stated they are to conduct an investigation to prove we can pay the bill
Not sure if I should reply or continue to work with the bailiff/court

Two
A Credit Card was cancelled and there were other more pressing problems at the time so it was it ignored at first.

In trying to tidy up matters they were offered £30 per month and a standing order was set up.

This seemed to be ok and there were no more threatening letters.

Today - a year later - a letter was received stating the debt has been assigned/sold to some company. We are advised to change any direct debit or standing order to them with a pre-filled form. We are assured any payment made to them on the old standing order has been passed on

Any advice on this

mildredalien

Hi, sorry to hear things are getting sticky!

I don't have an awful lot of advice to give just wanted to offer my support. However, my OH was in debt with some debt management companies, and received a very similar letter last year. Once he rang up the original people to check it all out it turned out to be a scam. Yours might not be, but PLEASE check before you start sending some new people money!

d3mon4ngel

You can send them a "prove it" letter. There's a template somewhere on here, but not sure where... sorry!

It's up to them to prove that you owe the money, so don't pay them anything if you don't think you owe it until they do.

Jesthar

Hey Pam,

None of this is really my specialist subject, but regarding the bailiffs - what company of bailiffs is it, and is this for a council tax debt or child support or something else tax related? Only a few kinds of debt usually attract the attention of bailiffs, you see, and not usually the types that get bought? You mention a court, but it's not clear in what context?

However, bailiffs themselves have NO power to send you to prison. I found this advice from one of our bailiff experts, Herbie21:

<bailiffs> CANNOT have any influence whatsoever on committal proceedings and neither can they recommend this.

Committal proceedings are for a Magistrate Court's to rule on....and NOT a firm of bailiffs !!! This is a very common statement made by bailiffs with the intention of scaring you.

It is very possible that the only reason they are saying things like this is to try and scare you into letting them in to your property so they can levy on your goods and add a lot of fees to your account. So, remember the first rule of dealing with bailiffs - NEVER, EVER let them in! Keep all doors and windows shut and locked, and speak to them through the letterbox, as unless they have been let into your house peacefully (either invited in or entering through an unsecured door or window), they can't force entry.

Of course, the above only applies if we are talking about actual court appointed bailiffs (or whatever the term is) and if the debt is something for which prison can apply. Debt collection doorstep collectors have no more legal rights that your paper boy, and should be sent packing with a flea in their ear.

Even if these are 'proper' bailiffs, prison is still only a last resort for debtors who refuse to pay up, so if you are trying to make payments then prison is unlikely.

Regarding the credit card debt, d3mon4ngel is right - send the 'prove it' letter and treat them as if they are an unknown debt. I think you should hae been informed by the previous company you were paying if they were selling it on, but I'm not 100% sure about that...

Anyway, sorry I can only be limited help, but the experts will show up at some point, I'm sure

~Jes

FTW

pamstretched wrote: »

Everyone's on our case at the moment

One
Sued by a company never heard of - Debt buyers apparently
Sent the bailiffs round - unfortunately they know us personally!
They were very nice and agreed a weeks breathing space to appeal the case.
Received letter today threatening commital to prison for ignoring the bailiffs from the debt collector company although we are in contact with the bailiff (office and personal mobile)
Stated they are to conduct an investigation to prove we can pay the bill
Not sure if I should reply or continue to work with the bailiff/court

Two
A Credit Card was cancelled and there were other more pressing problems at the time so it was it ignored at first.

In trying to tidy up matters they were offered £30 per month and a standing order was set up.

This seemed to be ok and there were no more threatening letters.

Today - a year later - a letter was received stating the debt has been assigned/sold to some company. We are advised to change any direct debit or standing order to them with a pre-filled form. We are assured any payment made to them on the old standing order has been passed on

Any advice on this

This sounds more like a debt collection agency (DCA) than a bailiffs firm.

It's common to confuse debt collectors with bailiffs, but there are substantial differences between the two.

That's why it's best you name the company concerned, then we can advise from there. I'd put good money on it that it's a well-known DCA.

pamstretched

Thanks for your post
The debt collectors took the debt to court whilst we were abroad.
When I sent the defense denying the debt they insisted it was too late (past 14 days) and the row continues. They insist on £75 for a hearing.
They said £50 per month was acceptable but payment was refused pending court hearing.
They are real bailiffs from our local court as I know the bailiff from over troubles! They need £127 arrears on the £50 arrangement but this would be agreeing to the debt. Anyway I won't have any money until next week.
Bailiff advised I apply for exemption of fees but on reading the booklet she sent today we are not eligible, so I'll need a week or so to get the £75.

The credit card company - wrote themselves to say they sold the debt - received today so it is real - on their headed paper.

I try not to fall out with the bailiffs as my elderly parent sometimes forgets we are in 2011 and goes to a neighbour or to the shops with just the latch on the door. I am trying to get a regime going but sometimes it's forgotten.

jamesd

Since the debt is for a credit card they have seriously breached fair debt collection guidelines by sending a letter threatening prison. A normal county court judgment does not have a possibility of prison. Council or income tax does.

Don't believe their claim that it's too late to file a defense. They probably simply obtained a default judgment for the whole amount because you didn't even know about the case. I'm assuming that by "they" you mean the people chasing you for the money, not the court. You just wrote "they" wihtout ever saying clearly who the different possible they's are at each stage. Best to repeatedly write "the bailiffs" or "the court clerk" to avoid ambiguity because there's a huge difference between a court clerk saying something and a bailiff or creditor saying something.

It's strictly technically correct that it's too late to file a defense if it's past the original time limit but that just means you have to use a different method.

Phone the court that the case was taken to and explain that you were away and ask them what you can do to put your side of the story and ask for the court to order reasonable payments. The court should explain to you about the process for getting the judgment "set aside". There is a £75 fee to pay to the court to apply to have a judgment set aside. Talk to the court about this, don't believe the creditor company or the bailiffs. However friendly you are with them, check everything with the court.

The court isn't going to order you to pay money you can't afford to pay. The creditor may not like being told to accept £1 a month but that's a shame for them, it's what the court will do if you can't afford more.

If you're in Scotland you should say so because the processes are different in Scotland in detail, though not in principle.

When it comes to the bailiffs, as part of the process of setting up some agreement they would probably have taken an inventory of items in the house, to create a walking possession agreement. If they did so and you signed the documents they would have a right to force entry into the property to take the goods. But this wouldn't apply while the new court hearing was pending or after a revised judgment.

Don't be concerned about going to court when you honestly can't afford to pay. Courts don't order people to pay more than they can afford unless it's just as part of a default judgment. If a creditor threatens court action, one useful thing to do is thank them for heir offer of assistance in getting the court to set up a reasonable and affordable payment plan and then offer something affordable, like £1 a month if that's what you know a court would offer. As soon as you make it clear that you know that taking you to court is a promise in your benefit, not a threat by them, that makes your position with any creditor much stronger because they like to use threats of court as a tool to manipulate people who are scared of it.

dancingfairy

I have replied to your other thread. You need to get the budget mentioned on the other thread drawn up as quickly as possible. You need to find out exactly what the debt is that is with the bailiffs - as mentioned get in touch with the court and don't reply on debt collectors/bailiffs. Try National Debtline's website for dealing with the balliffs and challenging court cases. You cna ring them as well for help and advice.
You ideally need to appeal the CCJ (I am guessing this is what this is) - this is your first step. If you loose and they can prove your mum owes the debt then you need to apply to pay in installments - this is where her budget is going to be vital - to show what she can actually afford to pay.
Please, please don't pay your mums debts for her though - she needs to go through the proper processes and you can't carry on bailing her out indefinitely.
Will post the link for National Debtline in a minute.
Edit: Link is here:
http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/
df

pamstretched

Thank you for the replies

We are working on these figures 2 budgets what we have been asked to pay - and failing - and what I think can be afforded on her income only.

We do not know what the debt is the company are debt buyers
As far as I know we are in touch with all the companies owed

I have only spoken to the bailiffs at the court they have agreed to hold off while a hearing takes place.

The budgets coming together but gets messed up when we are rushed for an immediate payment or we don't meet an agreement and have to make 2/3 months payment at once to catch up - obviously then missing some other payment.


We have managed to cut the monthly expenditure by a third since I started working on it but some way to go yet.

Jesthar

Hi Pam,

Please, which company is this you are dealing with - both the bailiff company and the company who has bought the debt if they are different? And what was the debt originally for? You can't get into any trouble for saying, but it will REALLY help us advise you better

I'm trying to get my head around this, so bear with me. As far as I understand it (for debt 1):

• A debt was sold to a firm of debt collectors (a DCA)
• You don't know what the debt is for
• The DCA took you to court whilst you were out of the country, giving you no chance to present a defence or a budget sheet
• Because you didn't get to represent yourelf at court, you have been ordered to pay an amount you can't afford
• Because you can't pay it, the baliffs have been sent

First things first, you need to find out what the debt is for! A DCA can't just say 'you owe us money' and expect you to pay, they have to be able to demonstrate that they debt is both yours and enforceable. So that is a top priority, even if it turns out it is a legitimate debt, as at least you then know exactly what you are paying off.

Secondly, DON'T let the baliffs in, even though you know them. But you know that one anyway

Thirdly, you need to challenge the payment order at the court. I can't help you with that, no knowledge in that area, but othr people here can.

Now, the second debt you mention, the credit card which has just been sold on? I'm a full advocate of paying back an original creditor, but if they have sold it on, they have washed their hands of it and are NEVER going to get another penny of your money, only the DCA will profit. So my first step with them would be to to find out if the debt is legally enforceable or not with a CCA request - if the card was taken out more than half a dozen years ago, there is a fair chance it is not legally enforceable, and if that is the case you don't have to pay it. I say again, I would never advocate doing this to an original creditor (unless they behaved in a bullying fashion), but as the debt collection agency have probably paid only a fraction of the value of the account to the bank, why let them profit at your expense if they aren't legally entitled to?

Finally, try to NEVER let yourself be rushed for a payment. Not dealing with creditors on the phone helps a lot here, as they can bully and threaten a lot more that way than if they have to write things down in a letter. If you can't afford their demands, that's tough on them - they can't have what you don't have, and trying to get more out of you than you can reasonably afford is VERY naughty of them. And they know that - they just hope you don't! Remember, you are perfectly entitled to only deal with them in writing, you just have to tell them that you don't want them to call you any more and only send letters to you when they next call. They won't like it, but they are required by law to comply with your request.

Oh, and congratulations on cutting your outgoings, that's a great step

~Jes

dancingfairy

Hi Pam - you seem to be approaching this slightly from the wrong angle with respect to the budgeting.
Have you read what I wrote on your other thread?
You need to put down what you should be paying for rent/mortgage, gas , electric etc etc - not including debt repayments.
Next is the priority debts
Thirdly is the lesser debts - almost certainly your budget won't balance at this point but that's the point. At the moment you are trying to fit your expenses around the budget and what creditors are demanding you pay. This is wrong.
Start with what you can afford and with the priorities - not what the creditors think you can afford.
You sounds very much like you are playing to the tune of the debt collectors - this must stop. You should be telling them what you can pay. If you miss a payment then STOP. DO NOT MISS OTHER PAYMENTS TO CATCH UP ON PAYMENTS YOU HAVE MISSED. This is a recipe for disaster as you will be continually chasing your tail. You should pay your priority bills first then what you can towards the others. If you miss a priority bill then you should make arranagements to catch up over a sensible period of time and the non-priorities will have to wait - even if they get 1 pound, even if they threaten court, even if they threaten to take the house, even if .... etc etc. Until you have caught up on your prioirity debts. They won't like it but tough. You have to admit that your mothers credit rating is shot by now with all these missed payments anyway.
Please post your SOA and I'm sure we can help you.
df