£100 fine from tax office

WaxiesDargle

hi..I'm after a bit of advice

i was self employed for about 18 months but stopped when I found a full time salaried job. I wrote to the tax office telling them that I had started a PAYE job from March 2009. In 2010 they wrote to me telling me that i no longer had to complete the on-line self assessment tax return form
so i thought that was that...

I have recently been sent a notification of a 'fine' of £100 for non return of my self assessment form...i have appealed but since i sent my appeal off they have sent me another letter with instructions how to pay this

trouble is i can't find the letter they sent saying I no longer need to complete my self assessment form

should I pay this and wait for my appeal result?

BlueC

WaxiesDargle wrote: »

In 2010 they wrote to me telling me that i no longer had to complete the on-line self assessment tax return form

Did they? Really? This would be unusual because after having declared self employment and using self-assessment you normally have to continue filling in SA forms for 6 years after ceasing self employment, even if only to put a load of zeros in all the boxes.

WaxiesDargle wrote: »

trouble is i can't find the letter they sent saying I no longer need to complete my self assessment form

Strange that.

Mikeyorks

WaxiesDargle wrote: »

trouble is i can't find the letter they sent saying I no longer need to complete my self assessment form

Did you also indicate cessation of self employment on the SA Return you would have needed to complete by Jan 2010? Presumably so - as that would trigger the letter during 2010. If so just await the response to the appeal. But you will have a problem if you had a 'notice to file' for 2009-10 (due Jan 11). In which case you will need to file a late Return and - assuming no tax due - that will reduce the penalty to £zero. So - either way - don't pay the £100.

BlueC wrote:

This would be unusual because after having declared self employment and using self-assessment you normally have to continue filling in SA forms for 6 years after ceasing self employment

Not the case ......... nor ever has been.

jimmo

If you have received a £100 fine the HMRC computer records show that you have been issued a 2009/10 Return, almost certainly in April 2010 and you have not completed it.
The letter you have received but can't now find is terribly important. My guess is that it said something along the lines of "We will no longer issue Tax Returns to you but you must be very careful to ensure that you notify HMRC if your circumstances change.
However, what the letter may not have said is that whilst you should get no more Tax Returns, you do have to complete any Returns already issued.
If the system shows that you have been issued with a 2009/10 Return your best bet is to complete a Return. As long as you have no tax to pay, the £100 fine will be cancelled.

WaxiesDargle

thanks mike and jimmo for your helpful replies...I filled my tax returns for the time I was self employed on-line

blue... if all you can add is sarcasm then thanks but no thanks...do you really think i would bother to come on here and ask this question if it wasn't genuine? what would be the point of that?

ooo what can I ask next...I know..I won the lottery but my dog ate the ticket...can i still claim?

dori2o

I can't remember the exact wording of the letter but it is something like

We have reviewed you last Self Assessment form, and on the basis of the information provided we do not propose to send you a tax return in the future.

The last 3 words here are very important.... IN THE FUTURE.

If this letter (it called an SA251) was issued after the 09/10 tax return was issued, then the letter means that 09/10 is the last return that needs to be completed.

Unfortunately the wording is rather obtuse and this is something both I and other officers at HMRC have put to the management (I first reported this in 2007 and have continued to do so in subsequent years). Unfortunately nothing seems to have been done about it.

The fact this letter has been issued will be logged in the notes on your record. I wouold suggest you complete the return, but also appeal against the penalty, and explain that the letter received is misleading as it mentions the last return received, which would be 08/09 and suggests that the 2009/10 return was not required.

Even if you have no tax liability, making this appeal will again flag up this issue and it may go some way to changing the wording on the (SA251) self assessment exit letter.

chrismac1

Next year, of course, the £100 is currently automatic whether or not the taxpayer owes any tax. Cases like this one, plus the generally shoddy record-keeping endemic within HMRC, highlight just how unfair that will be.

WaxiesDargle

thanks dori2o and chris

dori2o...thats sounds like the letter I got...thank you for your advice

taxing

WaxiesDargle wrote: »

hi..I'm after a bit of advice

i was self employed for about 18 months but stopped when I found a full time salaried job. I wrote to the tax office telling them that I had started a PAYE job from March 2009. In 2010 they wrote to me telling me that i no longer had to complete the on-line self assessment tax return form
so i thought that was that...

I have recently been sent a notification of a 'fine' of £100 for non return of my self assessment form...i have appealed but since i sent my appeal off they have sent me another letter with instructions how to pay this

trouble is i can't find the letter they sent saying I no longer need to complete my self assessment form

should I pay this and wait for my appeal result?

It's a shame you don't have that letter as I would say that is grounds for a reasonable excuse. The bit of paper is absolute proof but as you have appealed to HMRC, explaining these circumstances, they may well accept the appeal on that basis anyway.

In practice, we would phone up pre the deadline and get a tax officer to put a NIL (all zeros) return through to clear the record...they are reasonable and do this when it is recognised there was a 'time lapse' and the next year's return was already in 'the computer' even though, technically, HMRC had agreed no more were needed.

Again, and as mentioned in an earlier post, did you not get the reminder letter in early January 2011 - it pays not to ignore these things (and that's a general comment for all....not a 'poke' at you )

Regards.

WaxiesDargle

Thanks for taking the time to reply taxing..

no I didn't get a reminder....that would have triggered me to ring up HRMC to remind them of their letter...I'll let you all know how the appeal goes

thanks again all

suso

chrismac1 wrote: »

Next year, of course, the £100 is currently automatic whether or not the taxpayer owes any tax. Cases like this one, plus the generally shoddy record-keeping endemic within HMRC, highlight just how unfair that will be.

of course the shoddy completion of tax returns by so called "highly qualified" accountants who indicate that income tax will be due in the following year but it not permitted to use the tax code to collect it, which means an automatic issue of a tax return has nothing to do with the myth that once in SA its impossible to get out.

You know the box in question, box 3 on page tr5, its gets an automatic tick from most accountants trying to drum up repeat business.