Section 75 protection for delivery in 3 years' time

Optimist

maa299 wrote: »

Oh sorry, then this isn't a business transaction in that sense. I'd be investing as a private individual.

In that case, Section 75 can be used even after 3 years, right?

Investing !

Are you buying from the vineyard direct or is someone acting as a agent ?

shaun_from_Africa

In that case, Section 75 can be used even after 3 years, right?

Well, there doesn't appear to be anything in the legislation to state that there is a time limit.
Will you be using a personal credit card (as opposed to a business one), and who will you be paying for the wine?

Annisele

There will be a 6 year time limit (Limitation Act 1980), but I'd be more concerned about the business element / whose name the card and the contract was in / whether this was some sort of investment.

maa299

Thanks everyone. To answer the questions:

I'm using a personal credit card (not a business one), and I'm paying the wine merchant in the UK, not the vineyard in France. The card and invoice are both in my name, and the invoice address is my residential one.

As for the investment nature, the wine is supposed to be delivered (once bottled) to a bonded warehouse in the UK. That warehouse holds some wine that's intended as investment stock and also some that's to be drunk by the owners; the line between investing and consuming is a fuzzy one here! Typically some wines appreciate more than others, so an owner might decide to sell some and drink some accordingly.

shaun_from_Africa

I'm using a personal credit card (not a business one), and I'm paying the wine merchant in the UK, not the vineyard in France. The card and invoice are both in my name, and the invoice address is my residential one.

This is what may cause you a problem
For Sect 75 to be valid, there must be a direct Debtor-Creditor-Supplier agreement.
You will be going through an agent which could possibly cause problems in the event of a Sect 75 claim. It would be woth investigating this a bit further.

There will be a 6 year time limit (Limitation Act 1980)

But the 6 year period may not begin when the payment is made if the loss is due to fraud on the part of the supplier.

Postponement of limitation period in case of fraud, concealment or mistake
(a)the action is based upon the fraud of the defendant;..
...
...

the period of limitation shall not begin to run until the plaintiff has discovered the fraud, concealment or mistake (as the case may be) or could with reasonable diligence have discovered it

maa299

Thanks (very interesting), however I have written (email) confirmation from the merchant that he's paid for the wines in full, i.e. that the wine is his property now (even though it's not yet physically available to him or indeed in the UK).

That means that the merchant isn't an agent, correct?

bingo_bango

Debtor (maa299) - Creditor (AN Other Credit Co.) - Supplier (AN Other Wine Merchants).

The relationship is there. I have to assume that the wine merchant is the supplier, otherwise OP would be buying direct from the vineyard.

I'd agree with Shaun if the wine merchant is simply acting as a negotiator on your behalf, that may cloud the issue, but I would still take that the vineyard then becomes the supplier.

Who exactly are you paying here maa299? And is it more than £30000 (or more than £60260)?

Edit: If the merchant has paid for the goods then you are buying from him (he will have title to the wine). The DCS agreement is absolutely there.

Optimist

There is a excellent chance the credit card company will refuse your claim for the reason that Section 75 covers single items of £100 or more so unless each bottle costs £100 or more you are not covered under Section 75

bingo_bango

Optimist wrote: »

There is a excellent chance the credit card company will refuse your claim for the reason that Section 75 covers single items of £100 or more so unless each bottle costs £100 or more you are not covered under Section 75

Ooohhh....... no bonus points for you!!

The Act doesn't say anything like that in S.75

It states that 'if a debtor in a DCS agreement has in relation to a transaction financed by the agreement, a claim against the supplier.....'

Can be one or one thousand items. It's the number of transactions that matters.

Although I suspect you might be right about what the credit company will try to argue.

George_Michael

The Act doesn't say anything like that in S.75

Yes it does.

75 Liability of creditor for breaches by supplier
](b)so far as the claim relates to any single item to which the supplier has attached a cash price not exceeding [F1£100] or more than [F2£30,000]

But I don't think can be taken to mean that items purchased a job lot will be priced individually for the purposes of the act.
This would mean that if you were to place an order for something like 4 car tyres that were £40 each and the order never arrived then the Section 75 claim would be denied.