Am I a lodger or a tenant ?

KinkyMelinky

Hi Folks

I'm new to this board and it was recommended I put forward my sitation by a poster I know from another forum. My wife and my situation is as follows

We're renting in South East London. In February 2010 I paid a deposit to my landlady, and we drew up and signed an agreement whereby on exiting the house, subject to an inspection, we would be refunded the entire amount. We moved into the house at the start of March and started to pay rent. Mid March a leasing contract was written which myself, my wife and our landlady signed.

In January 2011 she told us that she wanted us to move out as she is starting a family and gave us 8 weeks. We were fine with this but she's extremely tight fisted and basically told us that she'd inspect our room on leaving and be as fair as possible, but I know fine well she's going to spot something and not give us our full deposit back.

We found a place that we will be moving into the 1st week of April and so because we're making the move it can leave things tight. We asked our landlady could we pay weekly this month and she flat refused. We eventually persuaded her allow us pay her 50% at the start of March and 50% at the end but it still leaves us very tight.

So in amidst all of this we took a look at our contract and it turns out she only contracted us for 6 months. So essentially she should have renewed the contract in September 2010 but didn't. I'm trying to give as much detail here as possible because it may effect the answers to my questions.

We have our own room, the landlady doesn't provide any bathroom towels, does not provide meals and does not provide bed linen. We have a lock on our door and the landlady never enters our room.

Bearing all of this in mind does this make us tenants or lodgers ?

Also, because we are out of contract since September 2010 can we pay her in however amount of installments we wish ? Weekly would be incredibly helpful right now. If we have no choice but to go weekly and tell her this I need to know that she doesn't have me over a barrel due to the contract.

No verbal agreement was made in September about how things would happen going forward because I genuinely believe she totally forgot that she had us contracted to 6 months.

Thanks for any help and advice given.

G_M

We have our own room, the landlady doesn't provide any bathroom towels, does not provide meals and does not provide bed linen. We have a lock on our door and the landlady never enters our room.

Bearing all of this in mind does this make us tenants or lodgers ?

I assume she lives in the same house? You share the bathroom? And there is a communal front door/hallway? The rent includes your electricity/gas etc? You share a kitchen?

You are lodgers. You live in her home. Even if you do not share ALL the above, it it is essentially the situation, you are lodgers.

You have few rights and can be asked to leave at short notice.

I asume also you have a receipt for the deposit you paid? So long as you leave your room as you found it less normal wear and tear, you should get your deposit back, so just clean it as it was before, and repair/replace anything you've broken/lost.

RAS

Do you share a kitchen, bathroom or any other facilties?

Jowo_2

There is a tenancy checker on the Shelter website - a quick and easy to use wizard.

Lodgers live in the same property as their landlord, sharing amenities like a bathroom, living room or kitchen. So it sounds like you are a lodger. The provision of towels, respect for privacy and failure to provide meals are largely irrelevant as it's mainly about the living arrangements, being in the same property as the landlord, and sharing common space.

As such, (also known as excluded occupiers), you have extremely limited rights and poor security of tenure. You are pretty much at the level of being her guest.

If you are struggling to afford the deposit and first month's rent on your next accommodation and this is why you can't keep to the original rental periods, I suggest you look into an overdraft, loan from friends or if you have low income, if you qualify for the local council rent deposit guarantee scheme.

If you do encounter problems getting your deposit back after you move, then you will find the Shelter website a good source of information how to address and challenge this.

KinkyMelinky

I see

Ok well this has been very helpful. Thing is, she put us down as tenants on the contract - like she used the word. Does this change things ? Although the contract has expired so maybe we're back to lodger status

spirit

Do you share any part of the house with the landlady? ie, kitchen, bathroom or do you have your own separate front door and have exclusive access to the whole property?

If the former then you are a lodger and have no rights at all. Your deposit doesn't have to be in a protected scheme, but also the notice period doesn't really exist. You could in theory give each other a week's notice and each could not hold the other to longer.

Also the 5 month agreement holds no legal standing either. She could say the minimum letting period is 6 months but can't hold you to it. Similarly if you wanted to move out within the 6 months you could.

Lodger's can't sign assured shorthold tenancies since you are not tenants. you could only have signed a licence to occupy.

KinkyMelinky

RAS wrote: »

Do you share a kitchen, bathroom or any other facilties?

We share the kitchen but have our own onsuite

RAS

You were always lodger status whatever the silly landlady wrote on a piece of paper. Just pray she does not realise.

Did she protect your deposit, because depsosit provided by tenants have to be protected in E&W but those provided by a lodger do not.

Did you sign an agreed inventory - list of stuff in the room and its condition?

KinkyMelinky

G_M wrote: »

I assume she lives in the same house? You share the bathroom? And there is a communal front door/hallway? The rent includes your electricity/gas etc? You share a kitchen?

You are lodgers. You live in her home. Even if you do not share ALL the above, it it is essentially the situation, you are lodgers.

You have few rights and can be asked to leave at short notice.

I asume also you have a receipt for the deposit you paid? So long as you leave your room as you found it less normal wear and tear, you should get your deposit back, so just clean it as it was before, and repair/replace anything you've broken/lost.

Yes we still have the receipt. I guess the best bet is just to sit it out and make the move at the end of March. Clean it up really nice and then off we go

She was saying something along the line of normally she pays half the deposit when we leave and half 2 weeks later. What's that about ?

G_M

KinkyMelinky wrote: »

I see

Ok well this has been very helpful. Thing is, she put us down as tenants on the contract - like she used the word. Does this change things ? Although the contract has expired so maybe we're back to lodger status

No. She can put down that you are Martians on the contract. Doesn't make you Martians!

The written contract may have expired by if you pay rent and receive a room, you still have a contract!

You are lodgers.

PasturesNew

You are lodgers then.
The original contract ending and no new contract being signed is a red herring.
You're lucky she gave you 8 weeks, she could actually have given you 8 minutes.

This is because you share the kitchen with the landlady, it's her home, it's her main residence, it's her house, she lives there too. You're lodgers.