My vet is taking me to the cleaners!

philman1980

olias wrote: »

OP, you seem to be missing the point. Your dog became ill, and you were lucky enough, despite it being the holidays, to have to hand specialists who were able to treat and save your dog. Unfortunately, presumabely due to it being the holidays, the payment was made to a vet, rather than one of the admin staff. The vet has made a genuine error or omission, because he is not used to dealing with the billing side of things. As a result, presumably on their return from holidays, the admin staff have noted this and have sent out 3 letters requesting payment. As far as they are concerned, all 3 letters have been ignored. As a business, they have to have a procedure in place for non payment, and one would assume that theirs is to send out three reminders and if no payment or contact is made, then to issue (or threaten) court proceedings. What more do you expect, for the senior partner to call round personally for a chat about it?!

I do not see anything unusual about this and certainly don't think they are 'taking you to the cleaners'!

The bottom line is that after saving the life of your dog on Christmas day of all days, they made a genuine error in billing. The charges they are requesting are by your own admission, genuine, yet you are going to 'dig your heals in and refuse to pay' for no other reason that I can see other than you are a bit peeved that they only sent 3 letters out and didn't ring you or call round.

I will repeat again, they saved your dogs life on Christmas day and made a genuine and reasonable mistake in billing and took reasonable steps to contact you about it. The right thing to do is to pay the bill. After all you would have paid it had the charges been on the original bill you recieved wouldn't you!

Olias

Sorry I don't agree, taking the emotive element out of the equation, would you say the same if it was a car?

I do expect more than 3 letters, a phone call would have been nice!

I would have paid the bill in the first place that's quite right, but they have made an error (in my eyes) and this has been confounded by their really poor system for debt collecting.

Thanks for your view point anyway

POPPYOSCAR

Can you not come to some sort of compromise with the Vets.

I personally, would make an offer stating that you were told that you had paid in full but that you appreciate the work that they put in and so are prepared to meet them half way in this instance.If they agree then send it to them "in Full and Final Settlement" and then they can't bill you for any more.

This way you get to keep on good terms with them.

philman1980

Berger wrote: »

In retrospect, reading the above two posts (not undaunted, we crossed over, and I don't quite agree with them), maybe (if you generally respect and find your vet to be honest) you should pay up. I missed the Christmas Day bit, and it is true that you were lucky to find facilities open and willing to treat (and not charge double time ;P )

However, the main fault is here is the vet's lack of training. If in one of our old shops, an employee failed to charge a customer correctly and let them go - that would be a shop loss and a disciplinary matter for the member of staff. I appreciate the vet is not a receptionist/admin, but at the least it highlights a big training need (or for someone who is trained to use the systems to be there at all times). The vet could have simply said we will send you an invoice if he/she wasn't sure what they were doing.

And re: the letters, I'm sorry, but if you want cordial relations with your customers, after two unreplied letters, before sending a 3rd threatening court, my policy would be for someone to try at least to call the customer & leave a voicemail, in case address details are wrong or similar. I would imagine this case, whether OP pays up or not, they will be losing a client in the long run.

So, if you agree the extra charges are valid, and are in line with what other vets would charge (as I say, I'm a bit wary of superfluous charges myself - but this is easily checked_ - I'd pay. And then change vets.

Thanks for the honest and polite response. I said earlier, the reason for me posting in the first place was to see if I'm talking utter tosh or not.

Your right, it was Xmas Day, but I was referred there, by my normal vet, so this is the first time I have used this vets hospital (Trust me I was charged alot! the total bill was somewhere in the region of £1500) The treatment was fine, and yeah maybe I am cutting off my nose to spite my face, but I really think their admin procedures are poor.

The fact I haven't been home for 3 months has confounded this, (Thats the last time I get my mum to check my post!) But why would I worry, I didn't realise I owed anyone anything.

Anyway, I'm going to see what they come back to me and say next.

philman1980

POPPYOSCAR wrote: »

Can you not come to some sort of compromise with the Vets.

I personally, would make an offer stating that you were told that you had paid in full but that you appreciate the work that they put in and so are prepared to meet them half way in this instance.If they agree then send it to them "in Full and Final Settlement" and then they can't bill you for any more.

This way you get to keep on good terms with them.

Thats what I presume will happen next.

Usually a court will not look favourably on a claim if an attempt to compromise hasn't been at least tried, which is why the threat of a courts summons is a bit empty at this stage.

I am waiting from them to discuss this with me, the one and only phone call I have had so far ended with the person telling me she would get back to me.

snowman2_2

On bank holidays, even vet schools will be short staffed and busy and it is very easy to miss a charge when pricing up, or get caught with something else when you are trying to write up cases / charges. I assume they tried to contact you fairly soon after Christmas / New Year and if so, it is probably fair on their part. If they waited a month before spotting it, different matter. Saying that I have just received a bill from my solicitor for missed charges almost 6 months after the event and I have paid up without questioning it.

Personally, I would ring them to explain that you have been away (not their fault) and missed their letters. I would explain that you are upset about this as you were told when you paid it was a final bill. I would then offer them £200, asking for a reduction as it was their mistake, even though the charges were valid. Myself, I would accept that as a small practice, I have taken the hit in the past for missed charges (and whinged at my staff!). Unfortunately a vet school is more rigid with the rules and you may have to pay up.

You are also wrong about a court not looking favourably if an attempt to compromise hasn't been made. If the money is owed, why should they compromise? I wouldn't take it as far as court if I were you, that sounds expensive and you don't want a CCJ on your credit history. Be polite, ask to speak to the hospital manager, offer a sensible settlement and ask for an apology for their mistake but you will have to pay a fair chunk at least. Good luck

philman1980

snowman2 wrote: »

On bank holidays, even vet schools will be short staffed and busy and it is very easy to miss a charge when pricing up, or get caught with something else when you are trying to write up cases / charges. I assume they tried to contact you fairly soon after Christmas / New Year and if so, it is probably fair on their part. If they waited a month before spotting it, different matter. Saying that I have just received a bill from my solicitor for missed charges almost 6 months after the event and I have paid up without questioning it.

Personally, I would ring them to explain that you have been away (not their fault) and missed their letters. I would explain that you are upset about this as you were told when you paid it was a final bill. I would then offer them £200, asking for a reduction as it was their mistake, even though the charges were valid. Myself, I would accept that as a small practice, I have taken the hit in the past for missed charges (and whinged at my staff!). Unfortunately a vet school is more rigid with the rules and you may have to pay up.

You are also wrong about a court not looking favourably if an attempt to compromise hasn't been made. If the money is owed, why should they compromise? I wouldn't take it as far as court if I were you, that sounds expensive and you don't want a CCJ on your credit history. Be polite, ask to speak to the hospital manager, offer a sensible settlement and ask for an apology for their mistake but you will have to pay a fair chunk at least. Good luck

Hi, thanks for that. I have had a day to think it over now, I have decided I'm going to pay them now.

I was angry at first getting home to find this, I have never before been threatened by court, I have done it to others in my job, and I have never made the threat likely, its always been a very final and considered action carried out in only severe circumstances, and I felt very appauled that this is an actual process that they employ.

Im going to pay and follow it up with an email to someone in charge. In future I will make sure I get a receipt from a vet with a very clear statement and not take anyones word for it!

Incidentally, it was on a bank holiday, but I was the only person there, the vets had no other animals in over the Xmas period, they didnt have the excuse of being busy.

And I'm sorry but I think I am right about making an attempt to compromise. Its up to the claimant to convince the court that the defendant actually owes any money, thats the whole point of taking it to court, if no attempt has been made to even speak to the defendant it will get thrown out. How did the vets know they were sending these bills to the right address? How did they know I hadnt moved? There could have been loads of reasons why I hadnt replied to their letters, a judge would look at it and ask all these questions.

You really have to make sure as a claimant you have done all these things, the vets process of threatening with a court summons, tells me that they rarely or perhaps never have to actually do it, which is why it would never have got that far.

Anyway thanks for taking the time to comment:)

snowman2_2

philman1980 wrote: »

Its up to the claimant to convince the court that the defendant actually owes any money, thats the whole point of taking it to court, if no attempt has been made to even speak to the defendant it will get thrown out. How did the vets know they were sending these bills to the right address? How did they know I hadnt moved? There could have been loads of reasons why I hadnt replied to their letters, a judge would look at it and ask all these questions.

You really have to make sure as a claimant you have done all these things, the vets process of threatening with a court summons, tells me that they rarely or perhaps never have to actually do it, which is why it would never have got that far.

Anyway thanks for taking the time to comment:)

I know you didn't ignore the vets deliberately and these comments are not directed at you,but here is my experience of clients we have to threaten with court action (emphasis on threaten - we only actually serve papers on one person every 12 - 18 months).

People give us false addresses, false phone numbers and even false names on a regular basis, probably one or two each month. We can't pursue these claims and it costs us (me personally) several thousand pounds each year.

Other people just ignore us - we send a polite invoice initially, then a request for payment within 7 days, then red ink. Only after you have ignored us 3 times do we then send an ultimatum regarding court papers. At this stage we find most people pay or it is a false address. We try phoning but generally don't get a reply.

The other problem we have is bounced cheques. Approximately 20% of all personal cheques will bounce. We will then try to phone people and generally get ignored. Invoices don't get paid when sent and all this has cost me not just the original bill but also the £10 my bank charges me. One person even stopped a cheque after they had paid us and then disappeared. I try to discourage cheque payment unless you have been to us several times before.

The clients we find are least likely to pay come in 3 categories - out-of-hours is terrible ("I just rushed out of the house without my wallet/purse"), exotics (lots of bad debts with expensive parrots and reptiles - loads of money for the pet but none for the vet) and the third group is those who say "money is no object", mainly because they have no intention of paying.

I appreciate that not everyone has the money for emergency treatment, pay-day may be 2 weeks away etc. There are limits to the credit terms we can offer legally but if you talk to the vets, ideally before treatment starts, offer them a sensible payment plan if you can't pay at the time then we will listen and try to help. I do need to see some money regularly - I have bills and staff to pay as well - and I need people to talk to us. If you ignore me, my phone calls, my letters or worse still, lie to me, then we start to consider action. When I do file court papers, I show how many letters / phone calls were sent, we write down each one on the record. Generally, the person has ignored every method of contact. Before starting court action, I have to decide whether the details given to me are correct and whether it is worth the court fee to pursue. If the threat of court action doesn't work, actual court action is unlikely to be more useful.

Saying all that, most people pay on time, some people who can't pay at the time are honourable and make the payment as soon as they can but the small minority are a real pain in the @rs3 and cost us thousands each year.

Going back to the OP, if you hadn't gone away and contacted them at the first letter, this would have been an easy fix. Nobody at any serious fault, just a series of unfortunate events & unlucky timing.;)

CFC

I appreciate your point of view Snowman, but if my surgery wanted to add on charges after they told me I had settled, quite frankly, they could whistle for it. It's a transactional relationship, not a professional one. You turn up, receive a service, and pay for that service, same as with a garage.
It may well depend on your relationship with your vet. I am with a big practice who know how to charge (eye watering prices tbh, and certainly higher IMO than a one man band) and have plenty of money to spend on the practice, and you never see the same vet twice, therefore I expect the same level of care to go into the billing when they are open, regardless of the date of the year.If they get it wrong, that's their problem not mine.

ashleypride

philman1980 wrote: »

Hi, thanks for that. I have had a day to think it over now, I have decided I'm going to pay them now.

That's best.

philman1980 wrote: »

And I'm sorry but I think I am right about making an attempt to compromise. Its up to the claimant to convince the court that the defendant actually owes any money, thats the whole point of taking it to court, if no attempt has been made to even speak to the defendant it will get thrown out.

They have tried to contact you via post, that's good enough for the court.

philman1980 wrote: »

How did the vets know they were sending these bills to the right address? How did they know I hadnt moved? There could have been loads of reasons why I hadnt replied to their letters, a judge would look at it and ask all these questions.

Because you gave them your address? The Judge doesn't care whether you might have moved - you didn't. There is no way they wouldn't win in court.

philman1980

snowman2 wrote: »

We try phoning but generally don't get a reply.

Totally agree with you about chasing payment except in my case. This whole silly saga could easily have been avoided if they had bothered to look at the payment history, most intelligent people would have seen a bill for £1800, with a credit card payment of £1500 then nearly £300 left over AND added afterwards, and wondered why I had paid the majority but left the rest. This would have been answered with a phone call.

The vets hospital in this case is a large organisation attached to a very famous university in Cambridgeshire, so certainly no one man band. The systems they have in place are obviously there rightly or wrongly to cope with probably a large client base, but as a customer I expect the same kind of service as if they are a small local practice.