Is my logic sound? (Childcare and going back to work)

BrandNewDay

I'm trying to start my own domestic cleaning business and, while a friend watches the kids once in a while, and I've gotten a couple of clients, I need to get some regular, bona fide childcare in place before it can really go anywhere.

The nursery fees for my two youngest would be between £240 and £280 a week, which is more than I can earn working for quite some time. Certainly more than any net profit I'll make for a long time.

I did find a very nice registered childminder on my street, who takes children to the same schools my children go to. She charges the standard hourly rates, but was willing to make a deal for filling two daily slots ever day of the week... so it would cost me between £150 and £200 a week (depending on school terms), but for shorter hours of the day, so I'm still not looking at covering the costs for a while.

You just can't tell what the tax credits will be until you actually apply, but I think I can MAYBE get the cost down to just over £100 a week.

I was really thrilled to manage to find this, thinking that maybe it would work. I told my husband and he said, "So, you need to clear £100 profit a week, just to cover child care, then?" He just doesn't see the point of it, I don't think.

He is very keen for me to start earning money, but he doesn't see the logic in paying for child care out of money I am not yet even earning.

My logic is:

I'm trying to build a business. I am about to have flyers printed and I'm hoping to pick up more clients, soon. I can't get the business off the ground - can't take bookings - if I don't have dependable child care in place.

Even if I'm just trying to break even for a while, by the time the two youngest are in school, I hope to have a full diary of clients. When they're all in school, child care costs ought to be lower. Someday, they won't need a paid carer and by then I hope to be expanding my business to the point of having employed staff and hopefully turning a nice profit.

I'm 41 years old. I haven't been earning anything towards old age in seven years. I also haven't been building any skills or otherwise moving up the payscale. Every day I stay at home with the kids, I get older and fall further behind.

I love cleaning. Owning my own full-time business is a dream I've had for a long time. I've been out of the work force so long that I don't really have any white-collar skills to offer that would pay much. I don't want to get a job working at Asda. I don't want to try and sell candles or whatever through home parties.

And, they're his children, too! Why is he only considering my income against the cost of childcare? Sure, at the moment, my going back to work won't add to our household income very much, but in time, I'll be bringing in money - perhaps even more than he earns.

How do I convince him that this is an investment?

andrealm

I can see both sides of this. I suppose partly it depends on whether you can afford to possibly work at a loss while you get established, I mean whether the household finances as a whole could take it. If not, Is there any Way you could work around school hours, so you don't need to use paid childcare initially.

Have you looked at entitled to, to see how much help you might get from tax credits? Not sure how it works if one of you is self-employed with a variable income.

Good luck with getting things started.

Counting_Pennies_2

I do wonder if the timing might not be right yet.

I would say wait until they are at preschool and you can take on one or two clients a day to do during the time they are there. 10 clients won't be bad. You will then have built up a reputation so when they start at school you can then hit the ground running with hours while they are at school.

My cleaner only does up to three clients a day, it is exhausting. You won't want to be cleaning any more than the school hours.

BrandNewDay

I can try to do a bit of cleaning on weekends. In fact, I have done a cleaning job on a Saturday and, as most other cleaners won't work weekends, it's a selling point for me.

Can we afford it? I think we can for a short while. I should be able to get myself to the point of covering the child care before too long.

If I wait until the youngest in primary school, that would be three more years, and I'll still be limited by school holidays and in service days and so forth. I don't want to just be some woman who comes by and does a bit of hoovering for a bit of cash - not that there's anything wrong with that. I've done it - I want to have a proper business with a professional image and brand. I want to build the foundations of something that, in a few years, can be built into a bigger enterprise so that we can afford to buy a bigger house that isn't on a council estate, fund our retirement, and so forth.

If only I had done this years ago, we'd already be there. I don't want to keep putting it off.

Pisces

Hi - is there a compromise? I think a lot of businesses are built up 'on the side' as most people can't afford not to work. I know you don't want to work in Asda, but could you, just for a day or so a week to guarantee at least some income in the short term? This could cover at least some costs while you establish yourself. And you get to talk to lots of people (potential clients) into the bargain, which could reduce your marketing costs.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck, sounds like you've really thought it through and I'll sure you'll make a success of it.

BrandNewDay

It's not that I think I'm too good to work at Asda. I wouldn't turn down a weekend job there, that's for sure! So, I think I'll apply for that sort of thing. That could help pay for child care.

I wish I could work evenings, but my husband's commute is so long that he doesn't get home until 6:30pm. I'm not sure if there are many positions available during those hours. I did apply to clean a doctor's office in the mornings through a commercial cleaning agency. It was 10 hours a week at £7 an hour, and I'd be working before school and my husband left for work. I really wanted that job, but didn't get it.

Perhaps if I could find one cleaning job of that sort - either on my own or through a larger company - that would work. It would nearly pay for childcare. However, I am not currently insured/set up for commercial cleaning. I could do a small business, and I'm hoping someone I know who is buying a pub will want me. I'd love to clean from 6:30-8:30 am.

Spendless

You have to think of it in investing in yourself. I did something similar, mine was to go and get some qualifications so I could go back to an office/admin job. I waited until the youngest was in sight of her free nursery funding though. Now I had it that this cost me, cos there was no income to offset against the costs, but I'd found a cheap course so in theory I could have waited till they were at f-time school but had more expensive course fees to pay.

In your case, you have tolook at it as though it will take £100+ till you see a profit, earn £80 and it's only cost £20 in childcare for you to enable to start up a business.

How old are the children?

Spendless

BrandNewDay wrote: »

It's not that I think I'm too good to work at Asda. I wouldn't turn down a weekend job there, that's for sure! So, I think I'll apply for that sort of thing. That could help pay for child care.

I wish I could work evenings, but my husband's commute is so long that he doesn't get home until 6:30pm. I'm not sure if there are many positions available during those hours. I did apply to clean a doctor's office in the mornings through a commercial cleaning agency. It was 10 hours a week at £7 an hour, and I'd be working before school and my husband left for work. I really wanted that job, but didn't get it.

Perhaps if I could find one cleaning job of that sort - either on my own or through a larger company - that would work. It would nearly pay for childcare. However, I am not currently insured/set up for commercial cleaning. I could do a small business, and I'm hoping someone I know who is buying a pub will want me. I'd love to clean from 6:30-8:30 am.

Have you checked with any agencies? At work, we'd love our cleaner to come in either those hours or at the end of the day, instead of bang in the middle, when muddy footprints are over the mopped floor within minutes and someone has to compromise over whether she vacs or whether we can take phone calls. Ours won't change though, cos she has other cleaning jobs at beginning and end, which is more than the 2 hours we ask for per week.

Counting_Pennies_2

I don't want to keep sounding negative, but have you checked with your DH exactly why he isn't keen?

It might be more than the childcare costs.

If he is working long days, and he can't see a return in the money because childcare will take all the money, I can see why he isn't keen for you to put the children in to childcare.

Also at weekends, he might be looking to spend family time.

Whatever you do, make sure it is what everyone in the family wants. I have seen too many people go through marital difficulties in pursuit of an extra few pounds a week, that wasn't necessary for the family pot.

I agree with your pursuit, but again think just another year or two before preschool starts is long enough to wait for the little gain you will get.

Sorry if I am sounding negative

RadoJo

Well, your husband's logic is definitely sound - you would need to earn over £100 a week to make it worth your while to work, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there's no point starting a business unless you have a guaranteed £100 right from the start. At least the business you have chosen will incur minimal start up costs - presumably once you've printed your fliers you don't actually have any other outgoings for the time being, in which case I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect his support.

Is it possible that he's concerned that once you start, you won't want to give it up even if it's not financially practical? Perhaps if you said 'I really want to give it six months/a year/ x length of time to see if I can make a go of it, but if it's not paying for childcare and a little extra in that time, then we'll reconsider the options' he would be a bit more enthusiastic!

Nicki

What about tax and national insurance. You will need to earn £100 of net income to cover your childcare costs, not £100 in your hand. If your aim is to set up a cleaning agency, you will eventually come up on the inland revenue's radar and they will look back to see what you have been earning once they catch up with you. My brother fell foul of this a few years ago, and ended up with a demand for nearly £10k back tax to be paid immediately or risk a prison sentence.