Two dogs two sets of problems...

Maybeanotherday

Wondering if anyone can offer any advice?
We have two dogs both with shall we call it "quirks" and I could do with soem guidance on how to deal with them:money:

Here goes:

I have a Male collie aged 12mths who's recently been snipped, we rescued him off a farmer as he was going to be shot for being too timid!!!
Anyway when we saw him there was another puppy snarling and biting him which I think started off his problems?
He is a very loving dog but when walking him he more or less bounces down the road with you. Then when we go out as a family (me,hubby x2 children) if he's off the lead he barks like crazy at us all, then if he's on the lead he cries and wimpers but doesnt do this on a one-one basis.
He also curls his lip at my youngest and growls but doesnt bite, usually when they are getting giddy playing with each other and the dogs in the room, but also if he goes near his bed.
When out walking if a dog come near him he yelps and rolls onto his back.

We then have a female king charles who's 4, she adores people but snaps if dogs come near her or hides behind your legs, we've not had her long at all and we are the third set of people to have had her!
She also takes a run on the lead so between them it's like walking two huskies:rotfl:

Can anyone help? as I want to make the best home for these two unwanted dogs and would appreciate advice

slummymummyof3

Have you considered taking them to dog training classes to try and overcome these anxieties?

gravitytolls

We hd a dog that snarled at the youngest, I don't want to worry you, but you need to deal with this first. We had Pluto for three years, he snarled and growled every time our young 'en went near him, this extended to all children of that sort of age. It culminated with him being returned to the rescue centre having bitten DS on the face, right next to his eye. Another CM and he could've been blinded.

We tried chastising him, positive praise and attention and various other suggestions by our very helpful vet, but he was basically a dog that felt stress acutely, and found younger children stressful.

He didn't attack DS, he happened to be in the kitchen with me, DS tried to hug him, he panicked and 'ruff ruffed' him. He caught his eye because both heads were the same height.

I would suggest a dog training class, but I'd think you'd need a partner to take one of the dogs, so you can both concentrate on learning the right techniques with one dog at a time, rather than trying to learn how to control two at once, especially with all the behaviour they're going to be displaying around the other dogs.

Maybeanotherday

Hello thankyou,
Yes the Collie already goes to social classes so to speak, but the king charles is not yet resident with us yet so to speak as she is a friends dog....so I have the settling in period to contend with first
I was thinking about doing alternative weeks at the classes, untill I can handle them both together.
As for the growling thats been one of my worries that it may just happen, I don't let my youngest anywere near him unless I have full control of the littly

sarabe

Re Dogs and children and especially Border Collies and children.



Yes, Toddlers and Dogs CAN live in peace! Notice the dog's relaxed body language and the fact that the toddler is NOT touching the dog. Coincidence? I don't think so.

All parents and future parents that have dogs should read this.

http://dogsandbabies.wordpress.com/about/

In particular this 3 part article.

http://dogsandbabies.wordpress.com/2011/01/24/mamas-dont-let-your-babies-get-magnetized-to-dogs/

http://dogsandbabies.wordpress.com/2011/02/07/how-to-not-magnetize-your-baby-part-2/

http://dogsandbabies.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/helping-toddlers-not-be-magnetized-to-dogs-part-3/

It's a shame that you have had him neutered as timid dogs really need their testosterone to help with confidence.

Hopefully there is enough information in the above to help with the dog/child issue.

Are you playing with a toy or ball with him when he is off lead? Is this why he is barking?

Sounds as if both dogs didn't receive adequate socialising and are scared of other dogs or don't know how to interact with other dogs. Do you think the classes are helping and you are getting the right help for their problems?

As someone who has been running classes for a while I wouldn't put an anxious dog into a class situation as it won't help the specific problem.

It's hard to find the right help for these dogs because there are so many experts out there now but if you go through the APBC or UKRCB they will put you in touch with the right person.

Maybeanotherday

Good Afternoon Sarabe, No we don't play with him when out as he doesn't tend to bring anything back or really be interested in toys, apart from ripping them to shreads on a night in front of the tv
He does whimper alot when on the lead, including if you pull him back he makes a noise as though you are kicking him which obviously is distressing for us and other people as they assume we are causing him harm!
He doesnt however do any of this odd behaviour when my husband is with him 1-1? My hubby cannot work out if he is barking at me or our toddler?
Thankyou for your input I appreciate it!

kittypimms

Hello, just a quickie, but hope I can help... Firstly well done for being a rescuer!

skellett wrote: »

Wondering if anyone can offer any Anyway when we saw him there was another puppy snarling and biting him which I think started off his problems?
He is a very loving dog but when walking him he more or less bounces down the road with you. Then when we go out as a family (me,hubby x2 children) if he's off the lead he barks like crazy at us all, then if he's on the lead he cries and wimpers but doesnt do this on a one-one basis.
He also curls his lip at my youngest and growls but doesnt bite, usually when they are getting giddy playing with each other and the dogs in the room, but also if he goes near his bed.
When out walking if a dog come near him he yelps and rolls onto his back.

I think you need the help of a behaviouralist, rather than a trainer. It sounds as if both of your dogs may have "fear agression" issues towards other dogs (as above poster stated, they may not have been well socialised as puppies). This can lead to a demonstration of the snarling and hiding behaviours in your Cav, and possibly the yelping from the Collie.

A good place to start to tone down this behaviour is starting to get calm behaviour from your dogs at a distance from other dogs (this may be 5m, 10m or 50m, depending on how stressed your dog gets). When the dog is calm in the presence of another, reward them and praise. Gradually (over a few weeks) shorten the distance, as your dogs remain calm and relaxed. (This is a precis version - a proper behaviouralist wil tell you if this is apropriate for your dogs).

Re the offlead barking - is this excitement? He's a busy collie, so does he chase a ball? If he's ex working, he may be "herding" you and your family... Also, have you had him checked over by the vet to rule out any pain from injury/ arthritis etc?

Leash pulling can be helped by using a harness rather than a collar lead; I've had success with a gentle leader (though would not recommend long term) and now use a Balance Harness on each of my boys. Makes them much easier to handle!

Secondly, the growling at kids. Growling is good, and should not be ignored or punished. Growling is a dog's way of telling you they are not happy.
Some people punish growling, which is how we end up with dogs which bite without warning, sadly.

Worth knowing the difference between play growls and warning growls - both my boys will playgrowl at me when we're doing tuggy, or playfighting - this is normal, and body language is far different from worried growling and warning growling.

To be safe, teach your kids that as soon as the dog growls, play stops. No punishment, just being calm and relaxed.
The dog also seems to be "resource guarding" his bed - this is something he prizes, so do not allow the children to play near it.

Hope this helps slightly - cannot stress enough the usefulness of a quick session with a good behaviouralist (APDT qualified and recommended), to help understand your brood!

Good luck!
A

kittypimms

skellett wrote: »

Good Afternoon Sarabe, No we don't play with him when out as he doesn't tend to bring anything back or really be interested in toys, apart from ripping them to shreads on a night in front of the tv
He does whimper alot when on the lead, including if you pull him back he makes a noise as though you are kicking him which obviously is distressing for us and other people as they assume we are causing him harm!
He doesnt however do any of this odd behaviour when my husband is with him 1-1? My hubby cannot work out if he is barking at me or our toddler?
Thankyou for your input I appreciate it!

Crossposted with you on this one...

RE the leash, I would definitley get a harness asap - it seems as if he is in pain around his neck. He may have been walked on a slip lead/ choke chain, which has caused some permanent damage.

Maybeanotherday

Really good links too thankyou!

tango

Walkezee harness are differrent and I cannot recommend highly enough

tizerbelle

skellett wrote: »

Hello thankyou,
Yes the Collie already goes to social classes so to speak, but the king charles is not yet resident with us yet so to speak as she is a friends dog....so I have the settling in period to contend with first

I may get shot down in flames for this but is it wise to take in the second dog while there are potentially big problems with the first?

It is far far harder to deal with two dogs than one, especially if they are both new to your home (and both have apparent behaviour issues) as they may well bond with each other rather than you. I'm not saying it can't be done but I do think you really need to consider given your current circumstances and regardless of what you have said to your friend whether this decision needs changing.