CCA's Sent & received - What's the next step?

roougers

Brilliant thread. Makes the whole process to simpletons like me easy to understand.

Rockyracoon

Hi,

This is a copy of the response from Cabot. Any help or advise would be gratefully received:-
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
28th March 2011
Dear XXXXXX
Our final response to your complaint
I refer to your letter, which was received in our office on 21st March 2011.
I regret that you have felt cause to complain to Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited ("Cabot") and apologise for any inconvenience that you may have experienced in relation to this matter.
I understand you have made a request for a copy of your credit agreement with Monument, the original lender. However you are still awaiting the relevant information.
We have made several urgent requests to Monument (now Barclaycard) to forward any documentation relating to your account to us. Unfortunately, Cabot has not received this documentation due to a delay in retrieving this information from their archives. We shall continue to pursue Barclaycard for the required information and upon receipt, it shall be forwarded to you immediately. In the mean time, your account shall remain on hold.
Please be advised, that the failure to provide a copy of your agreement in time does not affect the legality of your debt with Cabot but merely renders the credit agreement unenforceable until such time the agreement can be produced.
It has been well established in English Law, that "enforcement" constitutes obtaining judgment at Court. The reporting of a default entry to the Credit Reference Agencies or Cabot requesting repayment of your account does not amount to enforcement.
With regards to your subject notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act 1998 ("DPA"), section 10(1) of the DPA states:
"Subject to subsection (2), an individual is entitled at any time by notice in writing to a data controller to require the data controller at the end of such period as is reasonable in the circumstances to cease, or not to begin, processing, or processing for a specified purpose or in a specified manner, any personal data in respect of which he is the data subject, on the ground, for specified reason -
(a) the processing of those data or their processing for that purpose or in that manner is causing or is likely to
cause substantial damage or substantial distress to him or to another, and
(b) that damage or distress is or would be unwarranted."
Section 10(2) of the DPA states:
"Subsection (1) does not apply
(a) in a case where any of the conditions in paragraphs 1 to 4 of Schedule 2 is met, or
(b) in such other cases as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State by order."
I refer your attention to paragraphs 1 to 4 of Schedule 2 of the DPA, which states:
Conditions Relevant for purposes of the First Principle: Processing of any Personal Data
1. The data subject has given his consent to the processing.
2. The processing is necessary
a. For the performance of a contract to which the data subject is a party, or
b. For the taking of steps at the request of the data subject with a view to entering into a contract
3. The processing is necessary for compliance with any legal obligation to which the data controller is subject, other
than an obligation imposed by contract.
4. The processing in order to protect the vital interests of the data subject."
You shall note from section 10(2)(a) of the DPA, the words "any of the conditions" and paragraph 1 and 2 of Schedule 2 of the DPA are entirely relevant to your case, as your client signed a credit agreement which has been assigned by Monument to Cabot Financial (UK) Limited.
I note your comment that you have now suspended your payments. I would like to remind you that your request in no way relinquishes you from your obligations under the agreement to make repayments towards your debt. We therefore still recommend that you contact us to make repayments to your account and upon receipt of the relevant documentation we will supply you with the same. For your ease of reference the remaining balance on your account is £180.17.
I trust I have set out our position clearly. However, if you remain dissatisfied with our final response, you may bring the complaint to the attention of the Financial Ombudsman Service ("FOS"), within 6 months of this letter, who may investigate the same. Please refer to the enclosed leaflet. Notwithstanding, I must advise you that should your complaint be in regards to the enforceability of the credit agreement, the FOS will be unable to deal with this matter as it is not within their jurisdiction.
If you have any further queries in relation to the above account, please do not hesitate to contact me on 0845 026 0463. The Customer Assurance department is open from 9am to 5pm Monday to Friday.
Yours sincerely[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

Jamie Johnston

Customer Assurance Adviser
Notes
With this letter we have enclosed:
• "your complaint and the Ombudsman" leaflet
• "putting the pieces together" leaflet

thechippy

If the lenders actually tried to help / understand, people would not go the cca route - they force your hand and ultimately get what they deserve. The cca works both ways - they use it to thier advantage whenever they can, so others do the same when forced. Tuff on them.....:p

fermi

Rockyracoon wrote: »

This is a copy of the response from Cabot. Any help or advise would be gratefully received:-

Well, if your cut out all the irrelevant waffle and posturing, then they are basically admitting that they are stuffed until/unless they can get an agreement.

No point complaining to the FOS. They don't know their arse from their elbow in this area. Cabot know this, which is why they are suggesting such a pointless complaints process.

If you wrote the letter in the previous posts to Cabot, then part of their response is due to that.

Since the template you have used was written, the legal position has shifted somewhat due to rulings in the High Court and guidance from the OFT.

Please read this thread and the PDF documents linked to.

----> New OFT Guidance on agreement requests under s77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act

Personally, I would just ignore them until they stump up an agreement.

If they do, then we can take a look at what they have provided.

Culex

fermi wrote: »

No point complaining to the FOS. They don't know their arse from their elbow in this area. Cabot know this, which is why they are suggesting such a pointless complaints process.

FOS = Federation Of Scamsters?

The Office of Faffing and Twaddling "went native" years ago, so they'll be no help either.

Rockyracoon

Hi guys,


Just had this response from Connaught. From what i gather, very simular to Cabots reply by trying to say they do not accept in dispute due to regular payments, even though i stated in my letter about being under pressure etc... Any truth in what they are saying or just talking jive?



Date: Our Ref: xxxxxxxxx

Final Response
Dear Sir,
Re: 1st Credit Limited (Lloyds TSB) - Outstanding Debt - £845.46
Thank you for your letter dated 17
March 2011. We note you 'do not
acknowledge any debt' to us.
Please find enclosed a statement of payments received from you, since our instruction hi this matter, which we believe is a clear admission of liability.
We have not 'failed to respond' to your s.78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 request.
I note you confirm receipt of our letter sent to you, dated 2 March 2011, which acknowledged receipt of your request.
It is apparent you are using a template letter, presumably downloaded via a website or forum. We would suggest you fully consider the content of these letters, prior to sending them to your creditors.
As an alternative you using these unregulated and often unreliable sources of information, we would suggest you seek advice regarding your debts from your local Citizen's Advice Bureau.
You appear to be acting under the assumption we are obliged to provide you with a signed copy of your credit agreement. We can confirm to you at this stage that we are under no obligation to provide a signed agreement to you.
Further to your comments it appears necessary to clarify the definition of a 'true copy' of an agreement:
Where a creditor receives a request to supply a copy of the executed agreement, the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 apply. Regulation 3(1) sets out that 'every copy of an executed agreement... shall be a true copy'.
Regulation 3(2) goes on to state that there may be various information omitted from this true copy. Details which are not required to be in the agreement by law include the signature box, signature and date of signature. Therefore the effect of Regulation 3(2) is that the creditor is only obliged to send out a generic copy of the agreement the debtor has signed up to. The creditor is not obliged to make an actual photocopy of the agreement.
You have not specified upon which ground you rely for your notice under s.10 of the Data Protection Act and therefore we do not consider this valid; furthermore this is not a valid request as it falls under the exemption in Schedule 2 section 2(a) of the Act.
We remind you at this stage that a request for a copy agreement does not constitute a 'dispute' and we confirm whilst you may consider the debt to be disputed, in view of the repayments you have already made, we do not.
We will continue to register information regarding this matter with the Credit References Agencies, as we are obliged to do.
We would at this stage advise you that as a request for information does not constitute a dispute, we shall expect you to maintain your regular monthly payments whilst we obtain a copy of your agreement for you.
Should you default on repayments, we reserve the right to demand payment of the full outstanding balance, upon production of your true copy agreement.
Our aim is to resolve all complaints internally. However, in the event you remain dissatisfied with our response, you may refer the matter to the Financial Ombudsman Service within six months of the date of this letter. A copy of their leaflet is enclosed. We hope that we can resolve matters for you before you take this step.


Dear Sir,
Re: 1st Credit Limited (Lloyds TSB) - Outstanding Debt - £845.46
We are obliged under the rules of the Financial Ombudsman Service to make available to you our complaints procedure that is now set out below:
Connaught Collections Complaints Procedure
Complainants will be asked to put their complaint in writing. This will be to ensure no misunderstanding occurs as to the exact nature of the complaint. A complaint form will be provided if required.
Alternatively the complaint will be dealt with based upon verbal comments.
A written acknowledgement of a complaint will be sent to the complainant within 10 business days of its receipt. If a final response can be prepared within 10 business days of receipt of a complaint, the company may combine its acknowledgement of the complaint with the final response. In some instances it may be necessary for us to issue an interim response, if in the event ftirther details on the complaint are required from the complainant in order for us to be able to issue a final response.
Complaints are investigated by a designated person who has the authority to settle the complaint, or has ready access to someone who has the authority.
Within 4 weeks of receiving a complaint Connaught Collections will send the complainant either:
a) A final response which sets out the final view on the issues raised in a complaint and whether the complaint is accepted and,
where appropriate, the redress, or, the complaint is rejected, and, where appropriate, the redress, or, the complaint was rejected
with reason for rejection.
b) A response which: Explains that Connaught Collections is not in a position to make a final response, the reason for the delay and
when it is expected to be able to provide a final response.
Or
c) At the end of eight weeks after its receipt Connaught Collections will send the complainant either: A final response; or (2) A
response which:
Explains that the firm is still not in a position to make a final response, gives reasons for the further delay and indicates when it expects to be able to provide a final response; and informs the complainant that he may refer the complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service if he is dissatisfied with the delay and encloses a copy of the Financial Ombudsman Service's explanatory leaflet.

fermi

Again, it's all explained here:

New OFT Guidance on agreement requests under s77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act

and here:

OFT1272 - Guidance on section 77, 78 and 79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

I would read through those, as it will give you a much better understanding.

fermi

Oh, and as said about the previous response, the template you used from post #9 is waaaaaaay out of date now, and much of it is either wrong or not applicable any more.

So a response like that from Connaught is not surprising.

Culex

fermi wrote: »

Oh, and as said about the previous response, the template you used from post #9 is waaaaaaay out of date now, and much of it is either wrong or not applicable any more.

So a response like that from Connaught is not surprising.

But weren't they always arrogant b[STRIKE]u[/STRIKE]ggers?

minus28

Hi Rockyracoon,

I'm still trying to get my head around CCA's, but from my limited knowledge I thought that the point in requesting a cca was only if you thought you were not liable for the debt? (fraud/ex-partner, etc). From your post It appears that you have have received loans and ran up cards etc therefore are liable are you not? By requesting a cca are you trying to avoid debt? I only ask as I was thinking of requesting a cca myself to detail charges/interest etc, but whether or not they can provide an original agreement, surely my statements/expenditures and my payments all indicate liability. Thanks for any response, its a learning curve for me