CCA's Sent & received - What's the next step?

Rockyracoon

Hello Peeps!

Needs some advise Pppllllleeeeeaaassseeee!!!

After getting some very annoying phone calls from certain DCAs i decided to check out my rights online & come across this brilliant site! :j

Not to bore you too much but i have had 5 DCAs on my back for a number of years. I did go through a most unless Debt management service (Gregory Pennington) to sort things out a few years ago but it appears they were charge more for their so called 'services' than dealing with anything. Anyway got rid of them and contacted each DCA and arranged a payment plan (nothing signed, only over phone) of between £10 - £40 per month. These have been regular payments but as i have found out after reading these forums they don't stay satisfied for long.

The DCAs are:
Cabot Financial - current o/s bal - £185.18 - monument cc
Aktiv Kapital - current o/s bal - £3,638.18 - Lloyds TSB Loan
Connaught Collections - current o/s bal - £855.46 - Lloyds TSB cc
Rockwell - current o/s bal - £6,915.77 - HSBC loan

I have sent each DCA a CCA letter and just had the replies and want to know what the next action should be. Any template letters will be more than welcome!:beer:

Replies

Cabot Financial - Generic reply stating they do not have the requested information on file but they have requested it from original lender. The returned the £1 fee saying they do not accept it & finish quoting 'We anticipate that we will be able to provide this info within 12 days. in the event we are unlikely to obtain this info within those time limits, we will be in touch'

Is this just a delaying tactic for me to keep asking payments?

Aktiv Kapital - Although we purchased the right to recover the outstanding balance due under the agreement, as we are not the original creditor we do not hold the original documentation in this matter.
In order to obtain this, we did contact the original creditor, in an effort to reslove this matter.
Unfortunately, in this case, the original creditor has been unable to provide us with the information that you have requested, and as such we now inform you that we will cease all further collections activity in regards to this matter, whilst not in possession of such documents.:rotfl:

Connaught Collections - They are referring it to 1st credit Ltd??

I have noticed your request for information to be supplied under the CCA. I write to confirm we have requested this info from our client and shall provide it to you as soon as we are in receipt of the same.
I must at the point advise you that due to the fact the outstanding debt has been assigned from the original creditor 1st credit, it may take longer than the 12 days specified with the CCA. We confirm no enforcement action shall be considered by Connaught Collections until this information has been supplied to you.

Rockwell - I sent them a harassment letter with the CCA to which they say is within current industry guidelines & do not consider it harassment but have confirmed they have removed my telephone number from their automated system & future communications will be in writing.

I have enclosed a copy of our complaints procedure as requested.
With regards to your request for a copy of the original agreement uoting s77-79 of CCA 1974. Unfortunately, the agreement is no longer available. Your £1.00 cheque is therefore returned.
Notwithstanding this the debt remains valid andwe expect you to continue to meet your obligations under the agreement.
We acknowledge the fact that until we comply with our obligations to send you a copy of your credit agreement pursuant to s.77(1) of the CCA 1974 we cannot enforce your credit agreement through the courts. That is not in dispute.
Whilst we are not currently unable to take legal action to enforce the debt this does not affect the validity of the underlying debt. Section 77(4) of the CCA does not make the agreement void, therefore as the debt still exists we are entitled to carry out any actions that do not amount to transferring the debt to a third party, registering the debt with a credit reference agency and issuing a default notice. This was upheld in the case of McGuffick V RBS. We therefore reserve the right to register any default with the credit reference agencies.
In respect of the claim that this debt is in 'dispute', we agree that the agreement is unenforceable in a court of law as explained above however the money lent to you ha not been repaid to date and therefore neither of these facts are in dispute and we consider this matter resolved.
Please find enclosed a statement of payments that we have received against the above account; this confirms recognition and your acceptance of the liability for the above account.
Your plan arrangement has been reset for a further six months in line with the payments being received. Please continue to maintain your repayments.

Is this just bulls***??

Should i cancel all standing orders to these people? Please can you explain the next procedures?

Thank you in advance

Rockyracoon


"Rocky Raccoon checked into his room, Only to find Gideon's bible"

fermi

Cabot: Delaying tactic, yes. Up to you what you do. Personally I would continue payments for a while as they may suddenly pop up with it, but a personal call there.

Aktiv:

Connaught: Same as Cabot.

Rockwell: Whingey whiny half truths. They can carry on reporting a default if it already exists, and they can still ask you (nicely) to pay. But they can't do anything else until they stump up a CCA. Again, pay or not pay? A call that depends on your circumstances and whether you think they may turn up with a CCA down the line?

Rockyracoon

Thanks for your quick reply fermi

If these parasites had left me alone and accepted the regular payments I have been making then I would have carried on making the payments without question. Now they have got my interest and attention, I want to make it as difficult as possible for them!!

Now, without knowing the CCA inside out, I would like to reply to each of the DCAs with the next stage. Any template letters or point in the right direction would be much appreciated!

Many thanks

Rockyraccon

sickasachip13

Well this sounds pretty positive overall Rockyracoon.

Can I ask if you used a template letter?

Rockyracoon

I used a mix of different template letters I found on various threads sickaschips! I will post on here over the next few days! Only wish I had taken the time out earlier to research my legal rights!

Rockyracoon

Rockyracoon

As promised, here is a copy of the CCA letter I sent to each DCA


Address
Date: 23/2/11
To: Rockwell Debt Collection Agency

Dear Sir/Madam

Account/Ref No: xxxxxxxx

With reference to the above reference number, I would be grateful if you would send me a copy of this credit agreement and a full breakdown of the account including any interest or charges applied as I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter

I understand that this is my right under your obligation to supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 [sections 77-79], I am entitled to receive a copy of any credit agreement and a statement of account on request.
This must be a signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under Section 189 of the CCA 1974.

I enclose a payment of £1 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act 1974
Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued. Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

I understand a copy of any credit agreement along with a statement of account should be supplied within 12 working days. I also understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with the request for a copy of the agreement and statement of account under these sections of the Act.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully
NAME

Rockyracoon

[FONT=&quot]Ok, we are well over the 12 + 2 days they have to produce the original CCA & not one of them has managed to do so.

I am in the middle of writing them all a 'Do not acknowledge debt' letter but have been slightly stumped over the Rockwell response so was looking for some more advice.

Although they have not supplied the original CCA, they have sent a 'statement of accounts' showing all my regular payments, therefore stating I am acknowledging the debt. I have been searching various forums but cannot find a definite answer if this is true or not.

I did come across this paragraph to put in the letter & was wondering if this is enough to dispute?

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Although I have been making regular payments does not mean I acknowledge the debt. As I was under extreme pressure by you and received threats of court actions and further costs, caused me to make payments without question but have since taken advice, and now realise that the debt has not yet been proven to be mine.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]What are your thoughts?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rocky[/FONT]

athletesfoot

If you want to obtain credit in the future, mortgage etc, then you should make an effort to have any 'defaulted' accounts to be marked as satisfied, which means making repayments despite the fact they have no agreements.

If you are not going to be going down that path any time soon, the fact they cannot enforce at present means the ball is in your court. Technically the debt exists and payment is due, however, should you refuse to pay, they cannot commence legal action against you, until they have provided the necessary docs.

It really does come down to what you think is the right thing to do. Do you have a 'moral obligation' to pay - that's for you to decide.

Rockyracoon

Thank you for your reply athletesfoot. What I have found out about CCA's etc... from these forums is that if they cannot provided the original CCA document then the debt is in dispute & you can not acknowledge the debt. If you do not acknowledge the debt (even though technically exist) how can they still hold it against me as it's not been proven to be my debt? Is it possible for me now to write to credit reference agencies and make a letter of correction stating the debt has not been proven to be mine & in dispute? Could I ask for the defaults to be removed as it’s not proven to be my debt? What is the point in writing a CCA letter to them in the first place asking them to prove the debt if you cannot proceed forward?

In all honesty, 'morel obligation' is something I was trying to do in making regular payments but have now had enough of their rude & underhand tactics to bully you in to make high payments. This is now war! :-)

I have already written the following letter to them all but have not received any reply yet.
Any comments & advice is more than welcome.


ADDRESS
Date: 17/3/2011
To: XXXX Debt Collection Agency

Dear Sir/Madam

Account/Ref No: XXXXXX

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOURSELVES OR TO ANY COMPANY YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT

Thank you for your letter of XXXXX, the contents of which have been noted.

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On XXXXX I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.
You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on XXXXX

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.

Furthermore

you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

This limit has expired

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.



As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, and failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data?

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY
Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
* You may not pass the account to a third party.
* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.
You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me in writing with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.
Although I have been making regular payments does not mean I acknowledge the debt. As I was under extreme pressure and received threats of court actions and further costs, caused me to make payments without question but have since taken advice, and now realise that the debt has not yet been proven to be mine. These payments have now been suspended whilst the account is in dispute.
I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully


NAME


Rocky

valeriedixon

Am following this and other threads about cca - have you had reply to your latest letter?
Thanks for sharing your situation it is so helpful to hear how others cope.

Rockyracoon

Hey Guys,

I have now received 2 (standard) replies to my latest letter from the 4 DCAs which I will post below.

I have also received (out of the blue) a 'notice of assignment' from Arrow Global LLC informing me that the debt has now been assigned to Arrow Global Guernsey Ltd. The debt they are referring to was an old Orange bill that I refused to pay after falling out with Orange (long story) but this was eventually settled sometime ago. What are my options here? Should they even have my details on file? I'm going to dig out the paperwork for this but i need to know (ASAP) how to respond to them so any help will be much appreciated, as always! :-)


Responds:

Aktiv Kapital

We have previously confirmed that the original documentation relating to the debt is not available and, as such, we accept that the debt is unenforceable.
The lack of documentations, whilst making the debt unenforceable, does not in itself invalidate your liability. Therefore the balance remains outstanding, although unenforceable, and payments made to date have been credited against your debt.

I trust our position has now been clarified and in accordance with our official complaints procedure this letter constitutes the company's final response and further correspondence will not be entered into.

Your Sincerely,

Michael Kilden
Customer Services Department

I think they may be a little P'ed off :-) I don't like the way they still refer to it as my debt '...have been credited against your debt.' even though I stated I do not acknowledge it!

Any ideas for a response?

Connaught Collections

Thank you for your recent correspondence.

Your letter has been passed to the appropriate department and they shall respond in due course.

Rocky