Query regarding solicitors as executors.

Pee

MOONGAZER wrote: »

[Are you sure this wasn't a small interim bill raised towards the administration of the Estate? ]

Rach 39- once again thanks for your response, (its just that all this worries me!). Husband and brother went to their mother's solicitor, who held the will, she said they were the executors and would have to obtain Grant of Probate and be sworn in. In order to do this they had to go to another solicitor as she couldnt do it. They found another accross town who swore them in for £5 each. They then returned to the original solicitor who charged them £40 each for her to obtain grant of probate. Approx 5 weeks later, a letter arrived confirming grant of probate and an interim bill for £1,821.25 for her services - writing to gas, electric,bank, and sending a check for the funeral

In order to get the Grant of Probate, presumably the solicitor ascertained the size of the estate, the few letters to banks etc, drew this imformation together and completed the IHT form and the Oath with it. I think there is an element here of doing things well and without fuss so that you think nothing is being done.

It is possible to open an Executors account. Any main bank will let you. There will be lots of id requirements and no interest payable on it. If this was done, the executors could insist on the money the solicitor was holding being paid out, but it is a lot of hassle and not something I would choose to do myself.

Rach39

:eek:

MOONGAZER wrote: »

[Are you sure this wasn't a small interim bill raised towards the administration of the Estate? ]

Rach 39- once again thanks for your response, (its just that all this worries me!). Husband and brother went to their mother's solicitor, who held the will, she said they were the executors and would have to obtain Grant of Probate and be sworn in. In order to do this they had to go to another solicitor as she couldnt do it. They found another accross town who swore them in for £5 each. They then returned to the original solicitor who charged them £40 each for her to obtain grant of probate. Approx 5 weeks later, a letter arrived confirming grant of probate and an interim bill for £1,821.25 for her services - writing to gas, electric,bank, and sending a check for the funeral

When your husband and brother attended they must have instructed the Solicitor to act in the Estate (NOT to become an executor however!) Swearing fee is usual and is a pain in the neck but it's not 'swearing them in' it's an independant solicitor (ie not the one instructed) witnessing their signatures on the Oath to apply for the Grant of Probate. The £40 charge was probably a court fee for them to actually produce the Grant (not sure as here in NI the Court fee is £200:eek:!) If instructed (which it sounds like she was) solicitor will then have proceeded to write to all relevant parties (bank, utilities etc) again NOT as an executor but as the solicitor instructed in the Estate. Once she's got all the documents your hubby and brothr will doubtless have to go in again to sign all the withdrawal forms etc in order for the money to be released. It would be usual practice for this to be paid in to the solicitor who will the distribute in accordance with the will - I'm abit confused as it would appear they have appointed her to do all this for them but you're not happy with her doing it?? The interim fee maybe high, maybe reasonable - we normally fee on the basis of a percentage of the Estate value plus an element relating to the amount of time spent. You can ask for a breakdown of the fee if not happy. Hope this clarifies things a bit x

Rach39

By the way, sorry about the :eek: put in right at the start of the above post - don't know how I managed to do that and can't get rid!!

MOONGAZER

[When your husband and brother attended they must have instructed the Solicitor to act in the Estate]

Rach39 - I think I now see the light!! I must admit when they met with the solicitor and were telling me what happened, they seemed unsure of what went on, (acceptable I suppose under the traumatic circumstances). Your quote rang a bell; they did say she was willing to sort things out for them if they were happy for her to do so - this must be like you said - acting for the Estate. My hubby's brother, (the eldest ), immediately handed over all the bank books, etc.

Thanks so much, Rach, it's good having this explained to me, now it is clear that nothing untowards has happened, she obviously has behaved correctly..:j
I will get hubb to read this thread.
xx

nad1611

MOONGAZER wrote: »

I agree Rach must be a nice solicitor. My husband and his brother are the execs of their mothers will who died last May. They paid to be sworn in as executors as instructed by the solicitor who held the will, and yet she is still in command of all the money. Every bill that comes in has to be sent to her for action, (water, council tax, etc). My husband wrote to her to see when he and his brother as executors will have access to the money - the estate is to be divided between them, but he gets no reply. The problem is at a time when they were greiving and had no experience of what they had to do as executors, the solicitor took all the bank books etc. I think she is earning easy money out of greif and ignorance. Shouldnt they have been able to open a special account for them to access the money?

This seems very odd. Is the Solicitor also named as an Executor. If not then surely her role was simply to hold the original Will in safekeeping. Have either your Husband and/or Brother In law asked for her assistance.
My husband is an Executor to a Will along with a Solicitor she still has to run everything by him and they are both being sworn in.

As Executors your relations should be calling in cionverting etc, settling debts and then dividing to beneficiaries. Normally a special maccount is set up in the Executors names and all monies can then be paid in and out. As said I'd look into this pretty sharpish and tell her her seervices are no longer required and ask her to send them an itemised break down of her bill, this seems most irregular.

I would look into this very quickly. In effect the Solicitor whose an Executor almost becomes a Beneficiary. Most people making a Will don't realise the cost involved in the Solicitor acting as Executor, we've just realised it's going to cost abou£230=£250 per hour plus 1.5% of the Estate and 0.75% of any Property, which will probably come to something like £16000.

Unless it specifically states in the Will that this Solicitor has been asked to carry out certain work and therefore hs a right to earn, I would say she doesn't have any right to do so. In fact I'd be inclined to raise this as a seperate question. I'd be surprised if there was nothing they can do.

nad1611

SmlSave wrote: »

I work as a Legal Sec dealing with estates and I've never heard of a solicitor taking keys for the house! Our firm works like how Rach describes.



No. (Sorry no idea as to actually why though) The Executors can pay the bills out of their own money if they wish and get reimbursed for it though.

I am assuming that the reason the adminsitration of the estate is still not finished Moongazer is that the property has not been sold yet? Surely everything else has been done?

Why wouldn't the Executors have been able to open an account, that's what my brother and another friend did when they were . Lots of people do that. You never mix your own money with the Estates money.
Executors don't have to pay anything out of their own account at all. Otherwise you'd always have to appoint someone who could afford to be an Executor.

Where do you get this info from?

Errata

Nad - it would seem the executors asked the solicitor to settle the estate on their behalf. See post #15

nad1611

MOONGAZER wrote: »

[Are you sure this wasn't a small interim bill raised towards the administration of the Estate? ]

Rach 39- once again thanks for your response, (its just that all this worries me!). Husband and brother went to their mother's solicitor, who held the will, she said they were the executors and would have to obtain Grant of Probate and be sworn in. In order to do this they had to go to another solicitor as she couldnt do it. They found another accross town who swore them in for £5 each. They then returned to the original solicitor who charged them £40 each for her to obtain grant of probate. Approx 5 weeks later, a letter arrived confirming grant of probate and an interim bill for £1,821.25 for her services - writing to gas, electric,bank, and sending a check for the funeral

OMG I can't believe what I've just read. She's basically told them she's applying for Grant of probate relying on the fact they obviously didn't realise that she didn't need to do it, they were the Executors and she's obviously implied this was something they had to do.

I know this may seem excessive but so will your Bill be if you don't act quickly. You can apply to the High Court to have this Solicitors name removed from the Grant if all is as you say there are certainly good grounds she basically coersed your relations to put her into a position of power that should bnever have been hers in the first place.

Savvy_Sue

nad1611 wrote: »

OMG I can't believe what I've just read. She's basically told them she's applying for Grant of probate relying on the fact they obviously didn't realise that she didn't need to do it, they were the Executors and she's obviously implied this was something they had to do.

I know this may seem excessive but so will your Bill be if you don't act quickly. You can apply to the High Court to have this Solicitors name removed from the Grant if all is as you say there are certainly good grounds she basically coersed your relations to put her into a position of power that should bnever have been hers in the first place.

I think 'coerced' is a rather strong word for this. She may have taken advantage of people who were a) grieving and b) not clued up about the execution of wills and obtaining probate, and a good solicitor should ensure that people understand what they are signing up for. So it's possible that they did not really understand what they signed up to, but equally possible that they did understand, but haven't been able to communicate it very well to others.

Mind you, looking at that interim bill, it seems very low if it includes the cost of the funeral - does it?

Also does the bill have to be paid, or will the solicitor take it from the estate?

nad1611

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

I think 'coerced' is a rather strong word for this. She may have taken advantage of people who were a) grieving and b) not clued up about the execution of wills and obtaining probate, and a good solicitor should ensure that people understand what they are signing up for. So it's possible that they did not really understand what they signed up to, but equally possible that they did understand, but haven't been able to communicate it very well to others.

Mind you, looking at that interim bill, it seems very low if it includes the cost of the funeral - does it?

Also does the bill have to be paid, or will the solicitor take it from the estate?

Yes perhaps coerced was abit strong;) It's becasuse of a situation my poor old aunt found herself in not knowing what she signed or asked the Solicitor to do and suddenly the Solicitor was running the show.

Rach39 who would be held liable if a Creditor somewhere down the line who hadn't seen any Notification came up and said the Deceased owed them money. Now normally the Executors can be held liable and accountable for anything not going to plan, but as it looks like the Solicitors doing all the work would that still apply. At the end of the day it's probably going to be their signatures on any Final papers.
Also why did they have to pay £40 each? Ours is coming out of the Estate.


With regard to the Funeral. It would be at least £2-3,000. If the men were acting as Executors had applied for Probate and were dealing with the Estate themselves, then the Funeral money would come out of the Estate, but if the Solicitor is the one who seems to hold all the bank, and other monetary assets I don't see how they can pay out of the Estate, do they actually have access to the money do they even know what the Assets are. Funeral Directors are used to waiting some time for monies to be released so it's unlikely they'd come knocking at the door.

Gosh I certainly wouldn't like the idea of the Solicitor calling all the shots, still seems a bit iffy to me:rotfl: