Can my company do this!!!

getmore4less

gingerdad wrote: »

i don't see a 45 minute allowance for commuting a joke seems reasonable for any to travel to work for 45 minutes.

The other option would be to have the all leave a depot somewhere at 0800 and have to be back a 1800 with a commute either end. either way it seems reasonable to expect some commuting time in the day.

What other people choose to commute is their business, taking some arbitary value because some people choose to have longer commute is just a con by employers that have people that travel as part of the job.

The OP chose a job with ZERO commute as do many others that choose to be home based or live close to the nomal place of work.

Traveling in a company vehicle with company property required to do the job is working.

If between jobs is work then this is just another between jobs with an extended period of unpaid time between jobs where you just happen to be at home.

Next they will be making you take the time for lunch and call that commuting at each end the of the break.

Oldernotwiser

Any wrote: »

RUBBISH!!!

As much as I agree with the fact that we live in harsh times, I disagree thap people should be grateful for 12 hr + days work.

What kind of life is that?

It really annoys me when people say "oh, no matter, let them pile any kind of !!!! on you, be glad you can breathe!! Seeing your kids? Luxury!! Sleep? Luxury!!"

Shall we bring back workhouses?

The OP is working from 0800 to 1800 with a forty minute break, which is a 9 hour 20 minute day. It is not normal to include your journey to and from work as part of your working day and the OP is exceptionally fortunate to be paid for an hour and a half of his commute.

Any

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

The OP is working from 0800 to 1800 with a forty minute break, which is a 9 hour 20 minute day. It is not normal to include your journey to and from work as part of your working day and the OP is exceptionally fortunate to be paid for an hour and a half of his commute.

Have you read any other of my posts?

I said I agree with it all being reasonable... BUT it depends whether the pay is good for the 9hr 20 mins day...

Many companies in similar position (and I used to work at one) calculated hourly rate on leave home/come home, deducted reasonable travel time to work for normal people and decided on wages for the reminder... Because you travel all over the place, on demand of your employer and sometimes don't even know how long is it going to take to get there... If it is your first journey.

And in business like this (I suppose he is engineer or builder manager or something) it is not unusual at all.

In shortcut - question is whether he did get paid for the 1hr 30 mins at all actually.

I don't know how otherwise to explain it..

Any

Right, I know how to explain it now:

You go to interview A & B, both for service engineer.

One offers £22k pa and you cover 50 miles radius area, working hours 8.30 - 17.30 from arrival at first and leaving last customer.

Second offers £22k pa and you cover 50 miles radius area, working hours are 8 am leave the house and 18.00 arrival home.

Company books your service calls, not you.

See the difference? There is none. But the second is easier to control.

(50 miles area, averaging 30 mins as sometimes it is 10 miles from home, sometimes 50)

Old_Union_Guy

Whether the contract is reasonable or unreasonable misses the point a little. Lanesend's question is can his employer do this.

The employer's letter shows that the employer is not proposing a change in contract, but saying that starting work at the first site is the contract and they are now enforcing that. If that is the true position then of course the employer can enforce the contract terms. However that leads to other questions.

Lanesend, when you started working for this employer, when were you told to clock in and out and by who. If your line manager told you originally to clock in and out when leaving and arriving at home then you have a stronger case that your employer is actually changing a contract not enforcing the current one. It's even better if you have a employee's handbook or something that says you get paid home to home.

You said in your opening post that you and your colleagues disagree with the "change" but the employer's saying that some colleagues are already doing clocking in at the first site. Is that correct? If so it diminishes your case.

Obviously if there's a union in your employer, what are they saying about the change in practice.

If you're sure that the current procedure was correct then the company would be in breach of contract by effectively reducing your wages. It is important that you write to the employer, referring to the letter and making it clear that you are adhering to the new contract terms under protest and then get yourself a good lawyer if you're not in the union. If there's a whole bunch of you prepared to stand together then it's easier to do that and you can share the lawyer costs between you.

Best of luck.

lucylucky

lanesend wrote: »

Hi

Can anyone tell me if my company can implement this?:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Your Regional Manager may have recently held a meeting with you to discuss working hours; firstly I wanted to thank everyone who took part in those meetings and to acknowledge the large portion of employees who are already adhering to the guidelines of their contract of employment and hours of work.
The following message was delivered to field operatives to underpin the understanding of working hours as outlined in your contract of employment; we have sought advice over the application of this definition from ACAS as well as several employment advice agencies who have verified our understanding to be correct.
For field operatives, your contract of employment states that your hours of work are normally between 08:00 – 18:00 Monday to Friday. The company define working hours as arriving on-site for 8am and leaving your last site at 6pm. Therefore travel time to your first site and from your last site is not considered working time; we recognise that travel between sites is considered working time.
The company acknowledge that a degree of common sense does need to apply to this rule as it must be applied within what is deemed reasonable; therefore the company add the following clause;
If the first site or last site is more than 45 minutes away from your home then the remainder of the journey may be considered working time.
An example:
Joe Blogg’s first site is 1 hour away from his home
He sets off at 7.15am and arrives at 8.15am; therefore 45 minutes travel is his own time and 15 minutes of working time

Joe’s last site is 15 minutes away from his home
He leaves his last site at 18:00 (as per his contract of employment) and is home for 18:15

I trust this makes clear your working hours, it is important that you uphold your contractual agreement and that failure to do so could result in disciplinary action, if you are in any doubt please contact your Regional Manager.:(

Having read through this I think your employers want to have their cake and eat it.

If your base is your home, then there is no commute in your job, all your travel time is work time and should be acknowledged accordingly. If you are driving a company vehicle in the course of your duty then you are "working"

However if you have a nominal base then that would change things.

lanesend

Thanks Old Union guy

When I started the time sheet system was explained by our Personnel Manager.It was explained that as we were hourly paid that travel was paid from leaving home until you returned home and I have paper copies of time sheet's that show this. Since late last year we have been using an electronic tas system that we clock into in the morning when we start the van and depending on what tasks we perform in the day we log different things depending on the contract we are working on. It records travel time installation time surveys etc etc.We are still being told to clock in and out when we arrive home so cannot understand being docked 45mins to or from the last job. I thought that as I am driving a company van with company goods on that I should be paid as I am responsible for the van and contents.

Old_Union_Guy

Okay, so when you started your Personnel Manager explained that you started when you left home. This question is important, does every person in the same job as far as you know do the same thing? The employer seems to be disputing that.

lanesend

Yes all the guys in our region do the same

WhiteHorse

Actually, the terms are quite reasonable, generous even.

However ... if they have previously and routinely paid people for all travelling time, then it might be argued that they have already negated the initial agreement and that it has effectively been replaced.