Housing benefit...is it worth appealing or should I take the blame and pay up?

shady63

Ok, so basically in the space of a month HB/CTC have informed me that they underpaid us by around £400 and they're now saying due to "new info" they've calculated that they've overpaid us since Apr 2010 by nearly 3k. :eek: This is due to them "not knowing" we were in receipt of WTC.

In April 2010 my partner started working from being on JSA since Nov 09 (before Nov he was working and we were in receipt of WTC, CTC, HB/CTB)

He started work on 11th April, I informed HB on 24th April.

I informed tax credits on 2nd May. HB asked about our new tax credit figures, I said I haven't sorted tax credits yet so I don't have my amended award notice, meaning I can't give you actual figures.

HB asked if we'll be claiming WTC & CTC, I said yes and since my partner had gone back to his old job with the same hours/rate of pay, I said I'd imagine the figures would be similar. I was told they would update their system when they get the figures from DWP, this is what they did the last time we were waiting on tax credit info too.

Anyway, as far as I can remember, I wasn't asked to send in my tax credit award form, (I assume this was because they were going to amend our HB/CTB claim once they got the details through from DWP, because this is what I was told) I've had a look at my amended TC award form for this period and it clearly shows our WTC and CTC entitlement, so if I had been asked for the paperwork, the figures would have been right in front of them.

HB/CTB claim they only knew about our CTC and say that I "never informed" them that we were claiming WTC. Well yes, I told them we'd be applying for it, just as we did the yr before whilst DP was working, and they told me they'd update their system themselves using the DWP figures.

Obviously they overpaid us and I feel we ought to just pay it back because we've been given too much money BUT it wasn't my fault! I did what I was told! I always inform them of changes within a month and would never knowingly leave myself open to being demanded to repay 3k because of not passing on info.

What do you think? Should I even attempt to appeal or is this all my fault?

jamespir

you could appeal but i think you have to accept the blame and pay the excess

pandaspot

Hi I am a hb assessor and in my personal opinion you will not win an appeal. Regardless what the staff said on the phone you should have provided the info.

When there is a recalculation of benefit you would have received a new notification letter. Surely you noticed that you didn't receive one and your hb was being paid at the same rate continually. The onus is on the claimant to provide the info needed.

Perhaps the assessor on the phone should have followed up the wtc assessment but you are still responsible

Sorry

shady63

pandaspot wrote: »

Hi I am a hb assessor and in my personal opinion you will not win an appeal. Regardless what the staff said on the phone you should have provided the info.

When there is a recalculation of benefit you would have received a new notification letter. Surely you noticed that you didn't receive one and your hb was being paid at the same rate continually. The onus is on the claimant to provide the info needed.

Perhaps the assessor on the phone should have followed up the wtc assessment but you are still responsible

Sorry

Thanks for the replies...

Yep I did get the notification letter, the rate of HB had gone down, and I expected it to because obviously we were no longer in receipt of JSA. So whereas before April we were on full HB, after I'd given them my partners wage figures, we were on a lot less HB. Made sense to me! I would have deffo queried if they'd continued to pay full HB! I have no knowledge of how HB/CTB is awarded, the formula used etc etc so I just kinda trusted that they knew what they were doing as it was a lot less than we were on before which made sense, so I just paid what I was told.

I just think it's unfair, they get paid to do these calculations, I'm not a trained HB assesor, I just did what they told me to do and now it's up to me to pay for somebody elses mistake. Surely if they wanted my amended TC award notice, they'd have asked for it?

I mean, in the past, they've sent reminder letters for my partners last 5 wage slips by date XYZ so they can update our claim, so when they want/need something to update a claim, they ask (obviously otherwise how would we know they need them?!) They knew our income had changed by DP going back to work, they knew we'd be claiming WTC and CTC, surely they'd have sent letters asking for our TC evidence if they needed it? But they didn't and at the time I assumed (still do) this was because they were updating the system themselves, like they'd told me!

I wish I'd just ignored them and sent the award notice anyway, but it never occurred to me to do that. They successfully got our TC figures by checking the DWP system for our last claim, they said they'd do the same this time, so I had NO reason to think otherwise. If they say they're sorting it, that's kinda what you expect, since they're the experts!

AnxiousMum

When you received your new award notice from HB/CT, does it list what income you have reported? If so, did it list an amount for WTC, and are the amounts stated the accurate figures?

dseventy

On every award notice there is a line about keeping them informed of change in circs/income etc, you got bad advice and belived it but it does not mean you do not have to pay it back.

Did it ever occur to you that your income was high?

D70

pandaspot

Yeah you are supposed to check your award letter. I don't want to sound harsh but the hb office has a case load of thousands, and unless the assessor who told you they would check your wtc set a diary date them this will be missed. Cause will not remember you or your claim as they deal with 30 claims or more a day.

Any changes you have to notify the la about. It's written in the declaration you sign when you claim, and probably on the back of your notification letters to notify them straight away.

If you didn't understand the letters sent then you should have rang the council.

Another thing to bear in mind is that reviews do not happen any longer with claims.

If you want to appeal you can, but in my opinion and experience I don't think you will win

Sorry

shady63

AnxiousMum wrote: »

When you received your new award notice from HB/CT, does it list what income you have reported? If so, did it list an amount for WTC, and are the amounts stated the accurate figures?

We have 4 different award notices from this period from HB/CTB, the CTC is listed on all of them, the WTC is not. But then although our WTC was backdated to the date DP started work, we didn't receive the first payment until May 6th. All letters from HB are dated before then, so I'm guessing their system wouldn't have been updated then? I don't know, I don't really understand it, does a member of staff have to physically look through the account in search of this update from DWP, or does it flag up?

HB said the CTC amount was slightly out too (pence) but neither the amount HB have quoted from their "new info" nor the amount stated on the HB/CTB award notices from the time are the same as what we were actually being paid! :eek:

dseventy

shady63 wrote: »

I don't know, I don't really understand it, does a member of staff have to physically look through the account in search of this update from DWP, or does it flag up?

If you didn't understand it you should not assume that the DWP will take care of it.

If you had wrote a letter showing your change of circs and a recorded delivery note, people here would be backing you.

But to say you didn't know how it works and assumed x told y when it was on your own award letters does not really wash.

D70

pandaspot

shady63 wrote: »

We have 4 different award notices from this period from HB/CTB, the CTC is listed on all of them, the WTC is not. But then although our WTC was backdated to the date DP started work, we didn't receive the first payment until May 6th. All letters from HB are dated before then, so I'm guessing their system wouldn't have been updated then? I don't know, I don't really understand it, does a member of staff have to physically look through the account in search of this update from DWP, or does it flag up?

HB said the CTC amount was slightly out too (pence) but neither the amount HB have quoted from their "new info" nor the amount stated on the HB/CTB award notices from the time are the same as what we were actually being paid! :eek:

There is no flag to say so and so's tax credits have changed. There is for IS and jsa. In the future apparently there will be automatic notification should some be awarded wtc and ctc and if there is a change.

Probably by then it will come under universal credit?

shady63

dseventy wrote: »

On every award notice there is a line about keeping them informed of change in circs/income etc, you got bad advice and belived it but it does not mean you do not have to pay it back.

Did it ever occur to you that your income was high?

D70

No, it didn't. I was sending in DP's wage slips as and when they asked for them so assumed everything was right. DP gets paid 178/week after tax, we got around £143/week CTC & WTC, his petrol for work is £40/week, we were paying £80/week rent, 102/month council tax 10/week electric, £20/week gas, his insurance was £105/month, plus TV license and other bills and debts. Things felt tight actually!

As I said in the first post, I also feel we should pay it back because even though I wasn't aware, I was being paid too much. We've had the money, they obviously need it back. Just wondered if I was lying down and "taking it" too readily as everyone in RL has said it's disgusting and I shouldn't have to pay this.