granite crack 1 week after installation

Alan_M_2

The spanner in the works here is the sit on unit being fitted post installation. Without this (very material) issue this would be much more straightforward.

The kitchen fitter has a duty of care to fit the units in a way that they can accept Granite worktops.

The Granite worktop company have a duty of care to only fit their worktops on to base units that are solid and fitted well enough to accept the granite.


Here is your issue:-

Your units were fitted independently.
Your granite worktops were fitted to the units.
You (I assume you fitted this and not either of the kitchen fitters or granite company) then fitted a further unit on top of the granite and base units (after the event) which has caused a failure.

I assume after fitting this cupboard it was filled with crockery/food/tins/bottles etc?

If you take this via court it will be down to you to demonstrate that by fitting the cupboard on top of the granite and the base units you did not cause the failure. That's going to be difficult to say the least.

Granite is a very dense but brittle material, failure of this nature happens more often than you think, but it's usually at weak points such as sink and hob cut outs rather than across an uncut area.

Also worth considering is the type of granite that has been used, for instance if it's Baltic Brown or Verde Ubatuba I wouldn't be in the slightest bit surprised it has cracked, they are both more likely to crack than say - Star Galaxy or Absolute Black.

DirectDebacle

Alan_M wrote: »

The spanner in the works here is the sit on unit being fitted post installation. Without this (very material) issue this would be much more straightforward.

The kitchen fitter has a duty of care to fit the units in a way that they can accept Granite worktops.

The Granite worktop company have a duty of care to only fit their worktops on to base units that are solid and fitted well enough to accept the granite.


Here is your issue:-

Your units were fitted independently.
Your granite worktops were fitted to the units.
You (I assume you fitted this and not either of the kitchen fitters or granite company) then fitted a further unit on top of the granite and base units (after the event) which has caused a failure.

I assume after fitting this cupboard it was filled with crockery/food/tins/bottles etc?

If you take this via court it will be down to you to demonstrate that by fitting the cupboard on top of the granite and the base units you did not cause the failure. That's going to be difficult to say the least.

Granite is a very dense but brittle material, failure of this nature happens more often than you think, but it's usually at weak points such as sink and hob cut outs rather than across an uncut area.

Also worth considering is the type of granite that has been used, for instance if it's Baltic Brown or Verde Ubatuba I wouldn't be in the slightest bit surprised it has cracked, they are both more likely to crack than say - Star Galaxy or Absolute Black.

What nonesense.

This is the issue.

We phoned the people that installed it and they came and gave us some options about ways they could fix the crack. I was surprised because i thought they should replace it. They said the problem was that the cupboards underneath were not level.

They didn't say placing a cupboard on a surface with a compression value of around 2000kg per sq. cm. was the problem. If it had been they would have said so and jumped on this to avoid liability and only offered a repair as a goodwill gesture.

If the base units were so out of level that the worktop was effectively supported only at the ends then that is the likely cause of the failure. If that were the case then the fitting should have been refused until the problem had been rectified.

The fact they have offered a repair (presumably F.O.C.) I would suggest indicates that they made a serious error. Of course they don't want to replace a few hundred pounds worth of stone if they think they can get way with some filler.

Alan_M_2

DirectDebacle wrote: »

What nonesense.

I beg to differ - but that's the beauty of a forum like this, anyone and everyone is an expert, it's up to the OP to wade through the nonsense and choose the advice they prefer.

The problem is not straightforward due to the compressive load placed on the worktop/base units. That simply cannot be ignored as it is a material part of the failure.

It may or may not be the cause but it cannot be ignored as contributory.

diable

How did you pay for the granite?

Innys

While I tend to respect Alan M's opinion as he has far more knowledge in this area than I do, I have difficulty in believing that weight on top of the worksurface was responsible for the failure.

I think it's far more likely that the base units were out of level and the installation of a new larder type unit on top merely accelerated development of the crack.

However, as Alan says, everyone has an opion and it is up to the OP to decide which they feel is most likely.

Alan_M_2

What I've written may have not been completely understood so I will expand.

I actually think this problem is a combination of factors as follows, and this is based on nothing more than assumptions, something all of us replying have to do:-

The base units have not been fitted appropriately. (the most common problem is not braced enough and the legs of the units not properly leveling the units).
The granite either should not have been fitted on the base units or has been fitted inappropriately.
The sit on unit should not have been sat on the granite as it has compounded the first two problems.

All three of those issues can't be pinned on the Granite installer, there is a proportion of blame in all three parts.

CK designer has raised a valid point which has been overlooked. When employing trades and installers in isolation, you personally take on the role as project manager, you do this to save (often substantial) sums of money. However along with these savings comes a degree of responsibilty to make sure each trade has done what you've paid them for before the next comes in.

When a problem does occur in this situation the culpability is not often clear cut, as I've explained.

If you'd employed a "one stop shop" the buck stops with them and they correct it.......the flip side of that, is you pay for it, think of it as insurance.

However what you spend £10,000 on managing yourself - may have cost £16,000 to get a "one stop shop" to fit.....even if you replace the granite yourself and get the base units fitted as they should have been to start with it's likely you'll still have spent less than employing a company to do all of it.

DirectDebacle

grantperson wrote: »

any advice would be great. My only option seems to be trading standards or small claims court I suppose?

thanks for any help offered

Grant

Trading Standards will be interested more in the 'rogue trader' side of this, if it applies. They will not be of much use in getting a refund/replacement but small claims court will be.

Around 75% of small claims never reach court as they are settled before the hearing.

As far as courts go it is the easiest most user friendly part of the court system and has evolved to make it as unintimidating as possible. Your local court will give you much useful advice on how to proceed (but not legal advice). Costs are modest and repaid to the claimant if successful. It is rare that costs are awarded to the other side if unsuccessful. Usually if a claim is deemed to be frivolous or malicious.

My advice is to press the supplier/installer of your worktop for either a full refund or replacement.

To suggest that placing a cabinet on a piece of fault free stone that, properly supported, would take the weight of a transit van, caused it to crack, is laughable.

The granite is likely to have failed either due to a natural fault line (which can be invisible to the naked eye), incorrect fitting or a combination of the two.

It is a fact of life that these things can happen, even to the best of suppliers/fitters, nobody or a lump of rock, is perfect.

A decent company would recognise if they had made a mistake and put the matter right without argument. Their reputation would be worth far more to them than the cost of a worktop.

Clive_Woody

Give consumer direct a call they should be able to advise on how to proceed.

http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/

ryder72

I agree with CKDesigner. This isnt the first time I've seen this kind of mess and wont be the last.

The kitchen fitter should have levelled the units with granite worktops in mind. A good granite installer will check levels, before installing the worktop, but will also use packers as required to compensate for slight variations in granite thickness which isnt uncommon. Check is there is an obvious gap under the crack or a missing packer. Either would be evidence of a shoddy job.

While granite is incredibly dense and has high compression strength, its also very brittle and doesnt withstand impacts well. So while a unit mounted on granite shouldnt normally cause a problem, was the granite company made aware of this. They might have recommended additional battens. Did whoever installed the unit take sufficient care to ensure that the granite wasnt subjected to sudden impact?

Ultimately, I dont think you will get either the kitchen or the granite installer to accept liability and it will be near impossible for you to prove fault. So as a project manager, you might have to take this one on the chin.

DirectDebacle

kmdesign wrote: »

While granite is incredibly dense and has high compression strength, its also very brittle and doesnt withstand impacts well.

Not really suitable for a kitchen worktop then is it. Are consumers advised that they shouldn't put a chopping board on it and then use a cleaver to chop meat or a tenderiser in case this wonder material cracks.

What advise is given re putting shopping bags of food on it. Is there a maximum weight for each bag or combination of bags. What is the maximum height they should not be dropped on the worktop from?

Are they impervious to hot breath or long looks.:D

What use are they?