phone fault, any ideas

1jim

Hi.
I have a fault with my phone/phone line. I am with talktalk, over the last few days we have been unable to make calls, we can receive them and broadband connection is ok
When I pick up the phone to make a call we get the tone that you get when you have a 1571message (we did get a message left on 1571 the day it all went wrong and I hadnt deleted it)...talktalk say their line test shows the fault must be with my phone. I have unplugged the broadband splitter and plugged directly into the socket, we dont have a test socket so cant to that. I have tried a corded phone and the problem is still present.
Has anyone got ideas of what could cause this problem and how I fix it? talktalk dont seem keen to have a go at fixing it

Mr_Oink

Have you checked at the test jack - see this guide for info:

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&sqi=2&ved=0CCoQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.bt.com%2Fstatic%2Fi%2Fmedia%2Fpdf%2Frepair_guide.pdf&rct=j&q=bt%20fault%20testing&ei=uWBpTfzRK8rMhAeLlZTyDg&usg=AFQjCNEJMCEM4O2ze-0sXG2DHHr43SqbmA&cad=rja

1jim

no test socket here

Mr_Oink

If you don't have an NTE5 with a test jack, your installation does not meet required BT standards. In the 'good ole days' they used to swap these out for free, but I suspect if you call them in to change it they will charge to do it.

Ruling out that your line has not been OCB'd (outgoing calls barred) for an account payment issue it leaves us with a few possibilities. TalkTalk should be able to perform a test on the metallic line itself and see any obvious issues. For a 'can't dial out' this usually comes down to:

* an exchange fault on the line (line usually tests OK)

* a foreign 'battery' contact on the line (two or more lines touching somewhere) - this often has overhearing/noise and shows up on a test

* one or both wires in contact with the ground (earth contact) - accompanied by humming/buzzing and usually shows up on a test

* a partial 'loop' or rectified loop (a short) - which may not always show up on a test and is usually close to the customers premises or in their equipment/wiring.

How you deal with this all depends on your skill level with testing basic wiring - if you have some understanding of it, you can probably fit your own NTE5 (plenty of BT people selling them on eBay), and prove it off of your wiring - thus not getting hit with the £140(?) charge if found otherwise. If you are not at this level of ability, the follow the advice as far as you can - remove all items connected to your phone line, not missing Sky Boxes, call savers, adaptors, filters, old forgotten about modems, alarm systems, fax machines-printer-scanners, etc and then prove the fault still exists with a wired phone that you know works. Test the phone somewhere else to prove it. That's as much as you can do to test the installation, after that, it's Openreach I'm afraid.

Filters are notorious for going faulty and putting loops on the line btw, particularly TalkTalk and BT branded offerings, as are hashed in extensions run by Sky tv installers.

Good luck :-)

1jim

thankyou for a billiant post. As with most things in this house I suspect things dont meet current requirments but I guess that part of the course with a 1970's house

Im not sure about fitting am NTE5 plate....might google it and see how easy it is....would I be better waiting until this problem is rectified before messing with wiring?

I will go around the house again today making sure EVERYTHING is unplugged and retest with the corded phone, as far as I know we have sky/router and a couple of phone extensions around the house- nothing else connected but will go room by room again.

The line test came back from talktalk as ok, they dont seem interested in calling out openreach as as far as they are concerned there isnt a fault....

do you know if theres any significance to the 1571 dialtone when the reciever is picked up?

would it be cheaper to call out someone who advertisers in the local paper as being "ex bt eningeer" who normally do extensions etc, would they be able to fault find?

and once again can I say a huge thankyou for such a helpful post

Mr_Oink

I can't speak for how TT operate their 1571 system, and any dialtone issues it may have. If it sounds different to you, and they have not made changes, it could point a finger to their kit in the exchange.

As you have Sky, and they had that old 'must connect to a phone line interactive contract', then there should be an extension connecting the Skybox into the phone line. With no NTE5 in place, then either they have hashed this into a socket in the house, or there will be dedicated extension you can unplug.

As for who I'd recommend to fix it I'd say this much;
If you've done as much testing as you can do and honestly unplugged everything you can and the fault persists I'd personally call Openreach in. The 'phone engineers' you find in the yellow pages tend to be a unknown quantity. Whilst some probably are OK and worth paying, plenty don't understand the issues with a phone line and how to test it properly. In addition, the don't have the skills or network access to work on the whole line - they can only fiddle with sockets and internal wiring, many of them blundering their way through. If the fault turns out to be network/exchange rather than your wiring and equipment (which is quite likely given it's testing OK) then Openreach should not charge you. A one-man-band socket jockey still will. Make your own mind up :-)

The thing with phone lines is people assume them to be simple - and granted mostly they are a 'battery and light bulb' type of affair. However, testing the properly requires intervention into the BT network and checking the line not only across the pair itself, but each leg in relation to earth. The kit used to test it is specialised in terms of test voltages and ranges, and your average sparky with a megga or dvm is going to get little joy in finding anything other than raging obvious faults.

Hope that helps.

BTW are you overhead fed off of a dropwire, or underground fed? If overhead is it a nice, thick black wire or a figure 8 cable? Still a great deal of the old dropwire 8 (grey, thin figure 8) out there that is notorious.