House training without a crate

gratefulforhelp_2

Puppy love is snoozing happily after an exhausting night of pooing on the carpet...

She is 10 weeks today and has been with us for a week, just under.

She has 4 meals a day, under the breeder's recommendation the last at 10pm, though we have been gradually bringing this forward.

She is taken out every hour, and after waking and meals, every 1 1/2 to 2 hours at night. She is getting lots of praise and a treat every time she manages an outdoor wee or poo, wees are more successful at the moment.

She has her basket in our bedroom at present, so we are responsive to what she needs. I am not in the crate training camp, and am happy for it to be harder without a crate, so please don't suggest I use one, although I make no comment on others who do.

Apart from bringing forward that late meal, and possibly frontloading meals so she get the most of her food earlier in the day, any suggestions please?

She is a labrador, and so food treats work, and please don't shout at me...she is at home with her whole family the whole time, and she has had all her vaccs, worming, flea treatment and been checked over by our excellent vet (yesterday).

tango

Not being rude but this sounds a bit perfect for you,I crate trained and my dog loves it and feels secure and has place to go to get away from things. A dog at 10 weeks is different from a dog at 5months...

Not sure why you have asked for advice when you say you know what you are doing ?

gratefulforhelp_2

Who knows everything and can never benefit from advice?

I really don't want to use a crate, but I make no comment on those who choose to.

tango

gratefulforhelp wrote: »

Who knows everything and can never benefit from advice?

I really don't want to use a crate, but I make no comment on those who choose to.

Ok well advice from me is

1) Not sure there is any point in getting up every 1 and half hours at night ? I never did and mine was trained from 12 weeks,but I know some people get up at say 2am
2) Get the last meal to 8pm
3)Move her further away each night from you

suki1964

If you are getting up to her every 90 mins at night, how comes shes still pooing on the carpet?

You can actually be over sensitive to her needs and shes got into the habit of whine - and you lift her. Shes now thinks whey hey - play time and doesnt actually go toilet

Id not be getting up to her so many times in the night. Last toilet should be before you retire for the night then work out how long its going to be before you get up - and get up halfway to take her toilet ( say after 4 hours). If she doesn't go that time, the following night get up later ( perhaps at 5 hours).

At 10 weeks she should be getting to the age where she can hold for about 6 hours

I trained my first lad without a crate, second with. No difference in either way imho - both clean in the same time frame. The crate was just a good safe place for him that didnt involve my bed and stopped him from eating the house whilst I was sleeping

Frugalista

Can I ask why you are so against crate training?

sarabe

How many times did she poo on the carpet in the night and how many times did she poo outside in the night?

You only need to take her out once, maybe twice during the night and this should be when she wakes needing the toilet. If you take her when she doesn't need the toilet she will just wonder why she is out there and not learn anything particularly useful.

When she wakes in the night needing the toilet she will move away from her bed to go. If she cannot move away from her sleeping area she will probably wake you if you are not a heavy sleeper and then you can get her out at the right time.

Beware of giving treats for toileting. It works the same way as punishment. It is what they are doing not where they are doing it that they associate with the consequence.

I wouldn't change her mealtimes.

gratefulforhelp_2

Thanks for the replies

suki1964 wrote: »

If you are getting up to her every 90 mins at night, how comes shes still pooing on the carpet?

You can actually be over sensitive to her needs and shes got into the habit of whine - and you lift her. Shes now thinks whey hey - play time and doesnt actually go toilet

She doesn't whine, we just take her out fairly often.

Id not be getting up to her so many times in the night. Last toilet should be before you retire for the night then work out how long its going to be before you get up - and get up halfway to take her toilet ( say after 4 hours). If she doesn't go that time, the following night get up later ( perhaps at 5 hours).

At 10 weeks she should be getting to the age where she can hold for about 6 hours

Can they really go that long?

I trained my first lad without a crate, second with. No difference in either way imho - both clean in the same time frame. The crate was just a good safe place for him that didnt involve my bed and stopped him from eating the house whilst I was sleeping

Thanks, that's encouraging.

sarabe wrote: »

How many times did she poo on the carpet in the night and how many times did she poo outside in the night?

Once outside and maybe 4 times in, she goes more at night, which is what made me think the last meal was too late.

You only need to take her out once, maybe twice during the night and this should be when she wakes needing the toilet. If you take her when she doesn't need the toilet she will just wonder why she is out there and not learn anything particularly useful.

When she wakes in the night needing the toilet she will move away from her bed to go. If she cannot move away from her sleeping area she will probably wake you if you are not a heavy sleeper and then you can get her out at the right time.

She is so quick!! Guess we will have to be quicker.

Beware of giving treats for toileting. It works the same way as punishment. It is what they are doing not where they are doing it that they associate with the consequence.

Thanks.

I wouldn't change her mealtimes.

To the person who asked about why I don't want to crate train...it doesn't fit with how I see dogs, or what I want the dog to be, but I really really didn't want to generate a debate about crate training.

maytaurus

I've never used a crate to house train any of my dogs
But as others have said ... that's down to personal circumstances and choice
I have always used puppy pads ... and still have one down for emergencies lol
Good Luck

blue_monkey_2

We got our pup at 9 weeks and bedtime has always been in the crate, even on the first night. Now we say 'bedtime' and she goes into the crate of her own accord. If they whine you do not go down to them otherwise all you are teaching them is to carry on whining for your attention. We had a couple of nights whining but that was it. We were certainly not getting up every 90 minutes. How long do you think it'll go on for if you keep on responding to the whine? Your pup has to learn to hold it in and if you keep on reliving him/her then it will never learn.

My pup has her crate for sleeping in or for keeping her safe when we go out. If you leave her in the room by 4 months old she will chew everything in sight and wee and poo everywhere. With the best will in the world you cannot be with her 24/7, she has to learn to be on her own sometimes otherwise IF you have to leave her then she could become destructive through seperation anxiety.

Our pup has had just 2 accidents in the crate. She is able to hold her wee now from 8pm til 7am - 7.30 at the weekend and she is 5 months old. If she was out of the crate then no doubt she will wee and poo everywhere before we get up.

Maybe you misunderstood crate training. Crate training is where you leave them in the crate for hours each day, during the day, to teach them how to control her bladder, you do not have to use a crate in this way. Our pup has time with us all day and only goes in the crate when we go out and at bedtime to keep her safe - otherwise she could chew or eat anything and you'll not know til you get home and it might be too late then. What do you do with her when you go out?

During the day she is let in and out of the garden. We have the odd accident, like when it is raining and she won't go out, but she is housetrained now and she still will have her crate for sleeping and being kept safe when we are not here.

Our other dog never really went in the crate but I was cleaning up mess every single morning for months. I wish I had used it with her too. Don't dismiss what it is, I think you have a very negative view on crates, they are not prisons/cages and all dogs will happily see it as being their bed if it is used in a positive way. We always give a treat after she goes into the crate so the door is locked on a happy note and she is more than happy to go in there now and she knows that we are not going to be with her then.

gratefulforhelp_2

maytaurus wrote: »

I've never used a crate to house train any of my dogs
But as others have said ... that's down to personal circumstances and choice
I have always used puppy pads ... and still have one down for emergencies lol
Good Luck

Thankyou and lovving the avvie.

blue_monkey wrote: »

How long do you think it'll go on for if you keep on responding to the whine? Your pup has to learn to hold it in and if you keep on reliving him/her then it will never learn.

Please see post 8, she doesn't whine (so far!)

What do you do with her when you go out?

She hasn't been with us a week yet, someone has always been at home for her, she is a baby and needs to settle in.

I think you have a very negative view on crates, they are not prisons/cages and all dogs will happily see it as being their bed if it is used in a positive way.

Did you read what I previously posted below? I haven't made any negative comments on crate training, just said for me it was not what I wanted.

gratefulforhelp wrote: »

To the person who asked about why I don't want to crate train...it doesn't fit with how I see dogs, or what I want the dog to be, but I really really didn't want to generate a debate about crate training.

Thanks for the comments, guys.