What is the New World Order?

julieq

I have to say I was expecting something a little more convincing. It's a succession of unsupported assertions with loaded language (you don't make something into a "scam" just by saying it's a "scam"), quotes out of context and paranoid libertarianism. Some of the quotes are fake too, they're not even out of context. The inclusion of the Matrix footage is laughable. Guys: it's a science fiction film, not some sort of secret wisdom.

Fractional reserve banking is NOT a conspiracy to create everlasting debt. It's not secret. It's taught to students, it's in pretty much every economics textbook, where it is explained in detail. The makers of this film are targetting the naive who prefer to watch youtube than figure out the underlying economics. And they cherry pick events, including, sickeningly, the WTC attacks, to create fake markers for their fantasies. There are actually FAKED news reports in the film. There is no context around the assertions, no intellectual rigour, no discussion of alternative explanations. It is utterly unconvincing nonsense.

What interests me is not that there are people who believe this rubbish, but that there are people who create these paranoid conspiracy theories in such detail. You wonder what they're up to. Generally libertarianism is a product of the very far right in the US.

I'm interested too in the idea that gold equates to wealth. It's not all that useful as a material. There is plenty of it. It's only a store of wealth by convention, not utility, and certainly less valuable than land or housing on a crowded planet on any practical level. It's not readily transportable if the world infrastructure collapses. Sorry, but I'm happy with fractional reserve banking.

Heyman_2

julieq wrote: »

What interests me is not that there are people who believe this rubbish, but that there are people who create these paranoid conspiracy theories in such detail. You wonder what they're up to.

Indeed. Organising the masses? Converting people? Getting a group of people to believe certain things as fact? All of the above.

All in a 2hr 30min video, which people appear to be watching and being converted by. No wonder it's being distributed as a conversion tool - the organised religions of this world must be envious.

Procrastinator333

Had to pick the other half up, but back now.

3:08 in and I see I'm about to be educated on 9/11. Let me guess, it wasn't terrorists?

Dramatic music and a string of videos that suggest it was part of bush's plan.

Oh no, black limo's, people having a private meeting. Scary!

JFK talking about communism. What does that have to do with anything? That is largely finished these days?

Oh, then a video of JFK getting shot, suggesting that happened because he was talking about communism, sorry, meant the NWO (I'm that cool I can use acronyms now).

julieq

There's an excellent and very balanced discussion on this subject at Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_(conspiracy_theory)

See in particular the "criticism" section. The history of the development of some of the ideas is interesting too.

Fundamentally, if this were true it wouldn't be necessary to use demagogery to promote it. That means quotes out of context, manipulative use of language, false dichotomy, leading questions and language, and presenting opinions as fact. It's no surprise that there are belief systems based on total fantasy - the history of the world is based on religions which are precisely that, and there is a major growth in "new age" thinking due to people feeling it gives them some sort of personal control over an increasingly overwhelming world. But what is depressing is that far from enabling people to think for themselves to make sense of their lives, such beliefs put them on rails towards cultish group think.

Maybe there's no way out of that. Maybe the need to believe in some externalised structure to the way the world works, for good or ill, is necessary to avoid confronting the harsh and rather sordid realisation that we come from nothing and return there and ultimately we don't carry any particular meaning into infinity. But when I'm asked whether I believe this is all there is to life, I prefer to point at the sky and ask "what more do you want?"

The truth is this: yes, we are using resources up. No, that won't destroy civilisation any more than our depletion of coal reserves caused disaster. We'll find other ways of doing things or we'll stop doing them. And no, there isn't an international conspiracy to enslave us. We have more practical freedom that anyone in history. Wealth is more evenly distributed than at any point in history, and if there is any effect from globalisation it is to increase equality of outcome rather than diminish it, even though it's a painfully slow process.

Procrastinator333

4:51.

More dramatic music! More videos of police and riots.Pictures of prisons. Etc.

Oh, the music has become very much more sinister now. And I'm told the world is contrlled by a covert network of elite families.

Oh no, we are in the final stages of their darstedly plans! :eek:

I'm looking forward to hearing the proof to support these assertions.

This was compiled in 2008...

They have skipped on to what sounds like a trailer for some trahsy movie. A global elite are going to take over, wipe out 80% of the poulation and those that remain will under tight control. This doesn't sound good! "Prison like cities" "Unathorised Zones" "Evil computers" "Total Dehumination" "Worldwide control grid" "Masterplan"

Ok ok, I get the message you believe there is something scary out there. Any evidence?


Must be getting to the nitty gritty here, Part 1:

1775. American revolution was all about currency apparently. No idea if that is true, but will take that with a pinch of salt.

We are now on to central banks. Inflation and Interest rates. Though now at 11:24 and the central theme seems to be that there is a lot of debt, it is always growing and "Debt = Slavery"

But hang on, at the moment, I have no debt, not a bean. How am I a slave? Anyway, I'm sure it will become clear....

Evil people meeting at Jekyll Island :eek:

Heyman_2

julieq wrote: »

Maybe there's no way out of that. Maybe the need to believe in some externalised structure to the way the world works, for good or ill, is necessary to avoid confronting the harsh and rather sordid realisation that we come from nothing and return there and ultimately we don't carry any particular meaning into infinity. But when I'm asked whether I believe this is all there is to life, I prefer to point at the sky and ask "what more do you want?"

Very eloquently put. I like this bit best.

Kohoutek

julieq wrote: »

The truth is this: yes, we are using resources up. No, that won't destroy civilisation any more than our depletion of coal reserves caused disaster. We'll find other ways of doing things or we'll stop doing them. And no, there isn't an international conspiracy to enslave us. We have more practical freedom that anyone in history. Wealth is more evenly distributed than at any point in history, and if there is any effect from globalisation it is to increase equality of outcome rather than diminish it, even though it's a painfully slow process.

I don't think you should conflate resource depletion and ridiculous conspiracy theories like the "New World Order". The former is a serious issue that won't be solved by silly sweeping statements.

I'm not sure what you mean by your reference to coal depletion. Coal fortunately isn't depleted on a worldwide basis because most of the world's population are dependent on coal for their electricity. Coal consumption globally is increasing, not decreasing. The depletion of coal in the UK specifically hasn't been overcome, we've merely switched to imported coal and (now increasingly imported) natural gas.

ILW

If it is all true, what do the believers suggest should be done about it?

Procrastinator333

20:50

I don't think the author likes the Rockefellas or the Rothschilds.

The vidoe is going back to those people are having private meetings. They are asking the question why is it never reported on. Fair point, if there are all these interesting people getting together, it probably is interesting what they are discussing. But perhaps the answer to why the press leaves it alone is in the video. They don't let anyone in or tell anyone what they are doing. Think about how that newspaper report would go. "Today, X, Y and Z arrived at location A" "They went inside" "Two days later they came out" "That is all we have". Great story!

There is now a guy on the video telling me the federal reserve does exist. No s**t sherlock.

We are apparently all living in a pyramid.

Wow, a video of what is assumed to be a banker laughing greedily.

Hang on, this guy has found some news stories on the meetings, and oh wait, look what they say. The "Bilderberg group met, but it isn't possible to write much more as we don't know what they talked about"

julieq

Kohoutek wrote: »

I don't think you should conflate resource depletion and ridiculous conspiracy theories like the "New World Order". The former is a serious issue that won't be solved by silly sweeping statements.

I'm not sure what you mean by your reference to coal depletion. Coal fortunately isn't depleted on a worldwide basis because most of the world's population are dependent on coal for their electricity. Coal consumption globally is increasing, not decreasing. The depletion of coal in the UK specifically hasn't been overcome, we've merely switched to imported coal and (now increasingly imported) natural gas.

You can look on resource depletion locally or globally, and in this country we've essentially depleted the coal stocks past the point where they're viable. The response to increasing costs of resources is to find other ways of solving the same problem, and there's no reason whatsoever to believe that this will stop any time soon. As old technologies based on depleting resources fail, new ones are found to replace them or we change our patterns of behaviour.

An 18th Century futurologist looking at the rate of consumption of tallow for candles and extrapolating population growth would reasonably forecast that the world would eventually be walking in darkness for want of animals to render. So it is with the doommongers of today. They fail to anticipate the one completely dependable human attribute, which is ingenuity.

It's in the nature of neo-milleniarists to extrapolate trends forever and foresee certain doom as a result. This is I think explicitly a reaction to the conflict between ego and mortality - it is comforting to believe that we are close to the end of days because that allows you not to have to confront the fact that in all likelihood the world will continue quite happily for aeons after you have left it. With or without humans.

Similarly it is comforting to believe that the daily struggle is being made worse by external conspiracy, because that makes it someone else's fault. But it doesn't make it true.