2 Cars stolen & insurance not paying out

mattymoo

Quentin wrote: »

If the OP had advised their insurer about the theft of the keys they would have offered ways to protect the car pending the lock change (eg by arranging for it to go to a locked compound at night etc)

Really? I don't recall ever doing that (although that was the late 80's). Insurers have vehicle pick ups covered by their recommended repairers. I'm not sure if those same repairers would do the lock replacement work though.

I just don't think insurers would offer such a service to cover the potential (albeit realised in this case) theft of a vehicle.

Miss qwerty - all very good ideas but beyond the standard required by insurers in the normal course of events.

kookaim... - insurers will rightly decline a theft claim if keys were left in the stolen vehicle. Usual situation is petrol filling stations. Your keys were not left in your vehicle.

It is quite sensible to have your partners keys on your key ring in case on of you loses their key while out and about. I do not feel you can be criticised for that.

She should not have left all the keys with the garage but I do not feel it was a reckless act that could be relied on by your insurer to decline your claim.

Push your own insurer for a written declinature citing the section / clause of the policy they are relying on to turn down your claim and their reasoning. We can then review the situation again.

Paul_Varjak

When I take my car in for repair/service I remove ALL contents.

Also, I remove the car key from my keyring before handing it over to the service desk.

Even when I am using my car I never leave anything in the car that would identify my address.

Although I leave the SatNav in the car I put in a false postcode for my home address!

The only thing I do really need to keep in the car that has my identity, is my Disabled Badge. Unfortunately, it includes my name and my photo! When not in use, I store it in a hidden place.

gregd_3

I work in the insurance industry.

For Admiral to decline your claim they must prove "lack of reasonable care"

If you forgot about the key being on the key ring then I would say that this is not "lack of reasonable care" and Admiral should pay.

Don't hang about much longer, threaten the Ombudsman, if they do not budge then pursue it via the Ombudsman but it will take time to be sorted out.

Ian_W

iamana1ias wrote: »

The garage could not have left your house and car keys on the dash if they hadn't been given them.
That's true, but the garage didn't have to accept them. Once they did they owed the customer a duty of care to look after them. They failed abjectly.
Also not the garage's fault the thieves got your address. Highly unfair to protest when they are dealing with the bit of the issue that they were responsible for!
Yes it is. Had they not left the keys in an unlocked and (presumably) unattended vehicle having the address in the car wouldn't have mattered a jot. The only papers in my car with my address on them are with the service book (receipts etc) and guess where that is when the car is being SERVICED? Even if taken out and given to service reception it's invariably left in the car whenever I've picked mine up.

All that is moot though as the garage's insurers will only pay out if they believe the garage is legally liable. If you want to pursue them get some legal advice, any legal exes insurance?

However I agree with gregd above that Admiral are your best first target. As a customer you can use the FOS rather than the courts and the standard is "fairness" rather than strict legal liability.

I've had a quick look through Admiral's policy online and I can see nothing under the specific exclusions for theft that they could refuse on, just a general requirement to take reasonable care. If you didn't realise the keys had been stolen, left the car locked etc I think they will be hard pressed to show that you should have known and taken extra special care as a result. Or put another way, would you or anyone in their right mind want their car stolen and all the grief that has happened since?

Some people on here seem to have 20/20 hindsight and forget that we all learn from experience and, even so, none of us are perfect. Your OH's actions didn't help but the thief who stole both your cars is the one responsible who needs punishing, not you! Best of luck.

agrinnall

OP, do you have legal cover with either your household or motor insurance? If you do you should be seeking advice from them too.

magpiecottage

I think the OP's insurers are on dodgy ground.

Had the key been left in his own car then there may well have been an exclusion that allowed them to avoid the claim. However, they were not left in his car. Neither he nor his partner left them in his partner's car either.

Rather, the keys were left in the custody of the garage in good faith with a garage which was then negligent.

The question of whether garage is responsible for the loss of the second car as a result of its negligence would depend on whether a court considered that to be a reasonably foreseeable consequence.

However, it IS reasonably foreseeable (IMO) that there is likely to be something in a vehicle which has the home address of the owner on it and a mechanic ought to recognise a car key (albeit for a different vehicle) when he sees one, so I think it would thus be foreseeable that it might be for a vehicle parked at the owner's home.

I agree with Ian W.

If your insurer won't pay, go to FOS. If you have legal expenses cover, get them involved.

vaio

magpiecottage wrote: »

........Rather, the keys were left in the custody of the garage in good faith with a garage which was then negligent.

The question of whether garage is responsible for the loss of the second car as a result of its negligence would depend on whether a court considered that to be a reasonably foreseeable consequence.

However, it IS reasonably foreseeable (IMO) that there is likely to be something in a vehicle which has the home address of the owner on it and a mechanic ought to recognise a car key (albeit for a different vehicle) when he sees one, so I think it would thus be foreseeable that it might be for a vehicle parked at the owner's home........

And for those reasons I'd be going after the garage

Sally_A

Just because the garage aren't insured for such events, doesn't mean they are not liable.

Even motor trade insurers that cover "theft with keys" will investigate and will want to ensure reasonable care was taken.

The garage may incur a co-insurance clause rather than an excess for such events, but cutting out 12 paragraphs of small print - if they've been a pillock and left keys in an unattended vehicle you can still chase them for your loss.

magpiecottage

vaio wrote: »

And for those reasons I'd be going after the garage

Except that taking the insurance company to FOS is free but can only be done within six months of the complaint being responded to.

The insurer will then normally go after the garage using something called subrogation - which means they will pursue the claim on your behalf. They then keep what they recover up to the amount they paid you but extra payments - the excess and out of pocket expenses that might be included in the claim - would be passed to you.

So I would still take it up with the insurer in the first instance.

MrRedundant

I agree with whats going on.
Pheonix's neglience has been accepted and they are paying for this - I assume the car; locks etc. You however have an obligation to minimise your losses and by failing to change the locks/secure the car I suggest you did not do this.

Your insurer isnt going to ever pay out as you didnt take reasonable care either.

I suspect your best option is PR blackmail and tell Phoenix if they dont cover it you will tell as many media outlets as you can about their neglience. If you have a disabled relative then add an emotional side (i.e they suffer as pheonix got my car nicked)