Question regarding section 21 notice

Gandalfthegrey

Neas:

No I didnt? where in my post did I say I want to deliberately screw the LL over?? I asked for advice what to do in our situation as we are being evicted when just about to have a baby, I then found out that by law if needed we could stay beyond the 2 months notice, which is reassuring to know because we are struggling to find another place to rent.
Why would anyone in their right mind come on here and ask "hello everyone, just for fun I wish to screw our LL's over and make life difficult for them and ourselves, could you please advise the best way to go about this please?"
These forums really make me laugh, no matter what you ask it gets twisted by someone wanting to be contrary and turns into an argument about morals!

sequence

Gandalf : You cannot offer me this S21 !

Gandalfthegrey

Jowo wrote: »

The OP is conscious that if they do not secure social housing, which is more likely to those treated as a priority by the council (the homeless, those with dependents, etc), then she could miss the cut off point for a lifetime secure tenancy because of the changes proposed by the new govt to give social housing landlords discretion over the length of their tenancies and increase the rent closer to market prices.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/41254460#Comment_41254460

The problem with being issued notice that is considered too informal and not accepted by the council department is that the OP can't really risk waiting a couple of months for it to be detected by landlord and reissued again as the clock is ticking in the race against time to get a coveted secure tenancy that could be come a lot scarcer in future.

Yes you are correct, I have since found out about the new changes in social housing so yes I would like to get a council house preferably before the changes, if not never mind a roof over our heads would suffice.

BitterAndTwisted

In which case I would take my letter from the landlord down to the LA's housing peeps and ask them whether they consider it to be a valid notice.

Gandalfthegrey

N79 wrote: »

The housing act does not say that it needs to mention "under section 21 (1) or 21(4) as appropriate of the housing act" (at least not to my knowledge) nor has a higher court ever ruled on whether this is necessary (in fact, there are very few cases in the higher court because it is generally easier to "start again" than to take such a case forward against legal aid funded Ts.

So it is a good question. While I would always recommend LLs clearly identify the section of the act under which they are giving notice I'm not sure that it could be called a legal requirement. Edit: Interestingly Shelter believe it is a legal requirement but don't state any authority.

This is entirely different to the section 8 process where section 8(3) clearly prescribes the form of these notices. There is no equivalent clause for Section 21.

Of course, if it ever got that far, the High Court may disagree and make it a legal requirement - but as a T it might be risky to rely on this point in court.

Ok thanks, so you are saying it isnt necessary for the wording: 'under section 21' ?? When I showed the housing department/Council the letter, they never mentioned it was innsufficient notice, but maybe the lady I was interviewed by just didnt know?? is there a way I can find out for definate? thanks

Gandalfthegrey

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

In which case I would take my letter from the landlord down to the LA's housing peeps and ask them whether they consider it to be a valid notice.

Yep, thanks. We have already shown them and they never mentioned it was valid or not, but then I never asked.

N79

Gandalfthegrey wrote: »

Ok thanks, so you are saying it isnt necessary for the wording: 'under section 21' ?? When I showed the housing department/Council the letter, they never mentioned it was innsufficient notice, but maybe the lady I was interviewed by just didnt know?? is there a way I can find out for definate? thanks

Thats the point I am trying to make - I don't know if it is a requirement - nobody knows for sure as it has not been tested in the higher courts. It is good practice to include it, but is it legally required? Personally, I'm not so sure. Others (including shelter) may disagree but unfortunately shelter provide no evidence to support their assertion that it is a requirement. If someone could post a reasoned argument for why it is a requirement then I would be interested.

Either way, it is only an issue if your council refuse to accept it. As you say, so far the council don't appear to have a problem with the notice you have so there would not appear to be an issue.

Wee_Willy_Harris

Gandalfthegrey wrote: »

I wont go into much detail but basically our LL's have given us a hand written letter with 2 months notice to vacate the house we rent from them.
If I advise them that they should issue us with an official section 21 notice will that mean we have made ourselves 'intentionally homeless' in the eyes of the council? should I leave it to the council to advise them of this? (I dont know if the council even do that)
Thanks

No. Advising a landlord who already intends to serve a S21 that he has served incorrect notice would not make you "intentionally homeless".

Wee_Willy_Harris

N79 wrote: »

Thats the point I am trying to make - I don't know if it is a requirement - nobody knows for sure as it has not been tested in the higher courts. It is good practice to include it, but is it legally required? Personally, I'm not so sure. Others (including shelter) may disagree but unfortunately shelter provide no evidence to support their assertion that it is a requirement. If someone could post a reasoned argument for why it is a requirement then I would be interested.

Either way, it is only an issue if your council refuse to accept it. As you say, so far the council don't appear to have a problem with the notice you have so there would not appear to be an issue.

(4)Without prejudice to any such right as is referred to in subsection (1) above, a court shall make an order for possession of a dwelling-house let on an assured shorthold tenancy which is a periodic tenancy if the court is satisfied—
(a)that the landlord or, in the case of joint landlords, at least one of them has given to the tenant a notice in writing stating that, after a date specified in the notice, being the last day of a period of the tenancy and not earlier than two months after the date the notice was given, possession of the dwelling-house is required by virtue of this section; .......

Wee_Willy_Harris

Gandalfthegrey wrote: »

Yep, thanks. We have already shown them and they never mentioned it was valid or not, but then I never asked.

Did they accept/take a homeless application on the strength of the notice?