Say No to 090!

Steve_xx

bunking_off wrote:

Steve_xx

Agree that the UK geo calls may be a loss leader for 18866. The issue I see, however, is that (a) items such as this website and Working Lunch result in many people (including myself!) ploughing into them to only use them for UK geo calls and (b) on the face of it, their pricing is so keen that I can't see [m]any of their tariffs being particularly profitable. There are some where they will be making money - e.g. there's plenty margin in their calls to UK mobiles - but it's difficult to see how these will be offsetting the losses on calls to geo numbers, especially as it tends to be "price savvy" callers who use them. Who knows, perhaps they do know something we don't...

Yes, you do have to wonder how they make a buck, especially when they offer untimed calls to the UK. I can only think they must have some agreement to carry and terminate calls for a fixed price, irrespective of call length.

You're right in that there's good margin on mobile terminations and as most people have a mobile there'll be plenty of mobile traffic to be had. However, Ofcom have already shown some interest in the cost of landline to mobile terminations and have forced a lowering of prices. I expect that they will continue to exert pressure to get prices for calls to mobiles lower. In the past Ofcom have been relatively easy on the mobile networks and I think they cited the fact that these networks were still in their infancy and needed huge cash injections in order to improve the infrastructure and service. This isn't really so any more, except perhaps for the emerging 3g networks.

Certainly it is the case that BT have been regulated up to the hilt, particularly by past regulators at Oftel, and specifically when Bryan Carsberg headed Oftel.I think that Ofcom are starting to take pressure off BT wherever they think that the market is fully competitive and this is fair enough. You don't actually want to kill the goose that lays the golden egg.

bunking_off

Well on calls to fixed lines, fundamentally the bulk of these terminate on BT. BT have got a standard interconnect contract with standard pricing; there are no deals e.g. unmetered available for terminating calls. I guess a 3rd party could be offering 18866 a deal, but as said 3rd party would eventually have to terminate the calls on BT, someone must be taking a hit.

Termination rates to mobiles are coming down. However, as a rule, anyone offering 10-12ppm for daytime mobile termination isn't routing the calls directly to the mobile network, as the termination rates they offer are higher than that. There are ways (with dubious legality, which is another long story) of getting lower rates, essentially by faking that the call is being made from an "on net" mobile : a good clue tends to be that the CLI is lost. From memory, as an operator you'd pay anything from 7-10ppm using these techniques, depending on how fussy you are about call quality. Where I'm coming to is Ofcom's moves on lowering mobile termination rates are a bit orthogonol to operators charging 10-12ppm retail, because they probably aren't paying the mobile termination rate in any case.

Paul_Varjak

What has your discussion got to do with saying no to 090?

Steve_xx

Paul_Varjak wrote:

What has your discussion got to do with saying no to 090?

Nothing whatsoever - we veered off course on this one...........