Identity Fraud - gas/electric account, seems very easy!

whitescar

Hi all,

I'm having a bit of a dispute with EDF Energy at the moment, and the whole thing seems a bit weird. They say I owe money for an energy account at an address that I moved out from many years ago. The money owed is for 2009, when I was not even living in the same city any more. Since I moved out of the house (I was renting) someone else has moved in and a few years later reopened the energy account using my name.

First of all EDF Energy said I needed to prove I was no longer living at the address in 2009, so I sent them my confirmation of house purchase, mortgage statements, energy bills, and pay slips from my new address. They replied to say they didn't want proof of where I WAS living, they wanted proof that I WASN'T at the old address. I said I didn't see how that was possible, and asked if they could prove they weren't at the old address in 2009 without simply proving where they were living. They ignored that.

I reported the case to Action Fraud (actionfraud.org.uk) and asked EDF to investigate (as the Action Fraud advice is for the company to investigate first). EDF's reply was this:

"We do not require proof when completing a change of tenancy unless the is a balance left outstanding from the previous tenant as this was not the case the change of tenancy was completed. We are not legally required to request copies of tenancy agreements and proof of who the tenants are unless there is ever any query regarding the tenancy.

If you are disputing responsibility for the property between any of these times you would need to provide proof that you were in fact elsewhere at the time otherwise the account will remain as it is.

In view of the above EDF Energy will not investigate as we have acted on the information received and do not believe there is any identity fraud."

This is asking for evidence that I was living elsewhere (already provided) and seems to be saying that when someone rings to open an account they do not have to give any proof they are who they say they are. Doesn't this make this the easiest kind of ID fraud to commit? Isn't this a huge problem for Energy companies and tackling ID fraud and shouldn't they do something about it? It just seems very weird to me - I guess I may as well open an account under 'Beryl Edwards' and never pay it?

Any opinions or advice on how to proceed is welcome!

Joyful

Many people do have 2 properties so it is possible to be liable for both. I think they are leaving it up to you to action the fraud. I would try to get in touch with your previous landlord to get a letter saying you were not there. He will not be able to give you the current tenants info but at least you can pass the landlords info onto EDF. If this fails I would contact the police as it is a fraud.

Make sure that EDF block your account while this is ongoing.

duchy

It is far too easy. I just moved my account from EDF to BG and they didn't ask for any proof at all.

I've had EDF twice "lose" my duel fuel accounts in scams. Both times the properties were empty for a period of weeks before I moved in so I imagine that contributed. In the first case I didn't get a bill from anyone at all and when I rang to enquire was told I was no longer with EDF. Further digging showed the previous occupant had moved supplier just before moving out-I had then opened a new account with EDF but the moved over-rode the later new account. Was straightened out in a matter of weeks.

The second time I got letters welcoming me to Virgin power-I rang EDF who told me they could get them back-gas took a month-electric 6 months !!!! (and LOTS of phonecalls) At that point I moved to a key/card meter arrangement as it is far harder to transfer those apparently as you need to use the new suppliers key/card so the problem flags up earlier than on quarterly billing.

The suppliers really need to tighten up their procedures but I suppose if they did they would get fewer people switching as it'd be more hassle.

Premier_2

If you phone up with your meter readings on the day you move in or out of a property, these issues rarely arise.

Especially as they typically ask who is going to be responsible the moment you leave, and that that those people don't later dispute the readings.

If renting, getting readings included and agreed on the in/out-going inventory/statement of condition is also wise to avoid future disputes.

To prove you no longer are responsible for a property a solicitors sale confirmation or a rental agreement, eviction notice, signed (by the LL/agent) & dated outgoing inventory/statement of condition are the typical documents that will prove this.

I don't quite follow what evidence you have to back up your claim of any fraudulent activity in this instance.

undaunted

whitescar wrote: »

Hi all,

First of all EDF Energy said I needed to prove I was no longer living at the address in 2009, so I sent them my confirmation of house purchase, mortgage statements, energy bills, and pay slips from my new address.

showing you were living & working in a different city? - seems reasonable enough to me!


"We do not require proof when completing a change of tenancy unless the is a balance left outstanding from the previous tenant as this was not the case the change of tenancy was completed. We are not legally required to request copies of tenancy agreements and proof of who the tenants are unless there is ever any query regarding the tenancy.

But there is now a query regarding the tenancy isn't there?

If you are disputing responsibility for the property between any of these times you would need to provide proof that you were in fact elsewhere at the time otherwise the account will remain as it is.

Surely if they want to pursue you for the debt they will need to prove that you owe it not just rely on you proving you don't!

There is a legal requirement for companies to show professional dilligence & it may therefore be worth seeking legal advice.

Personally, I would also contact the police reporting it as a crime. Once you have a crime number hand EDF the number & tell them it's there problem / you'll happily see them in Court if they wish to take it further.

undaunted

Premier wrote: »

I don't quite follow what evidence you have to back up your claim of any fraudulent activity in this instance.

He / she knows (assuming they / you don't doubt EDF's word) that energy was used in his name.

The poster states he did not use it or have anything to do with the property at the time.

That seems to indicate some form of fraud / deception having taken place (unless you are suggesting that the poster is lieing & did occupy the property / use that power)

whitescar

Thanks for all the replies. To respond to some of the points:

'Premier':
As 'undaunted' points out the issue of evidence is basically the fact that I wasn't living in or renting the property at the time, and aside from all the documents I sent to EDF to show that I have at least 20 witnesses who would say the same. Also, I may have rung with final readings when I moved out of the property, I do not remember, but I do know that when I moved out the account in my name was closed - EDF have confirmed this with me - so my involvement, at the time, was properly concluded. The account was reopened a few years later, in my name, with a different landlord in charge of the property (I know this as my landlord sold the house when I moved out). Therefore EDF know that I closed my account and left the property - the problem is that someone else pretended to be me later and reopened it. As this was with a different landlord (or, potentially, WAS the landlord) and I have no idea who that landlord is, I cannot get any evidence from them. I no longer have contact details for my landlord at the address, but even if I did, he could only confirm what EDF already know - that I moved at the time I closed my account.

Also, from EDF's email it appears that they believe that anyone opening an account is who they say they are - if that is enough evidence for EDF to open an account for someone, surely someone saying an ID fraud has been committed should be enough evidence for them to investigate a potential ID fraud? They can't take people's word in one case and not in another - especially as it's a lot easier to get proof of identity from someone that it is to get proof that someone didn't live at a specific address at a certain time, as I've already pointed out.

'undaunted': Action Fraud supplied me with a crime number so I have sent it to EDF and asked them to pass all their information regarding the case to the police.

t0rt0ise

Did someone pretend to be you and open an account in your name or did EDF just mess up? I had the same thing happen the other day when I got a bill from OVO for fuel used after I'd left the property. I called them and them being a decent Customer Service admitted that they'd erred. The new occupier hadn't actually opened an account with them so they didn't have a name so sent me the bill instead. The law of averages would make me think that EDF have blundered.

DVardysShadow

whitescar wrote: »

Therefore EDF know that I closed my account and left the property - the problem is that someone else pretended to be me later and reopened it.

Alternatively, EDF knew that the property was tenanted after you moved out and the Landlord never had an account. Come the end of one tenancy, EDF wound back through their own records and assumed like idiots that you were the landlord, because you were the last customer before tenants were taken on.

Premier_2

whitescar wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. To respond to some of the points:

'Premier':
As 'undaunted' points out the issue of evidence is basically the fact that I wasn't living in or renting the property at the time, and aside from all the documents I sent to EDF to show that I have at least 20 witnesses who would say the same.

As pointed out by Joyful in post#2, it is entirely possible for someone to be responsible for the supplies at more than one property at the same time.

whitescar wrote: »

Also, I may have rung with final readings when I moved out of the property, I do not remember, but I do know that when I moved out the account in my name was closed - EDF have confirmed this with me - so my involvement, at the time, was properly concluded.

No, not necessarily, especially as you may have failed to contact the supplier on the day you moved out and given a true and accurate meter redaing.

whitescar wrote: »

The account was reopened a few years later, in my name, with a different landlord in charge of the property (I know this as my landlord sold the house when I moved out).

The landlord of the property is irrelevent.

whitescar wrote: »

Therefore EDF know that I closed my account and left the property - the problem is that someone else pretended to be me later and reopened it. As this was with a different landlord (or, potentially, WAS the landlord) and I have no idea who that landlord is, I cannot get any evidence from them.

I no longer have contact details for my landlord at the address, but even if I did, he could only confirm what EDF already know - that I moved at the time I closed my account.

Again, mostly irrelevent. What you need to prove is the date your tenancy ended, and that relates to the landlord you had at the time. Ideally you need the outgoing statement of condition which includes the agreed meter readings signed and dated by the landlord/agent. If you don't have that, or some similar evidence, and cannot obtain that now (which I would think you'd need from the lanlord/agent at the time, not a new owner of the property), then you are stuck really.

whitescar wrote: »

Also, from EDF's email it appears that they believe that anyone opening an account is who they say they are - if that is enough evidence for EDF to open an account for someone, surely someone saying an ID fraud has been committed should be enough evidence for them to investigate a potential ID fraud? They can't take people's word in one case and not in another - especially as it's a lot easier to get proof of identity from someone that it is to get proof that someone didn't live at a specific address at a certain time, as I've already pointed out.

What actually appears to have happened is that the period and/or consumption in dispute relates to a period directly following from when you claim to have left the property to the next time someone registered an account.

If that's not correct, then EDF will need to prove you again became responsible for the property supply such as having a new tenancy agreement (or proof you were the landlord in DVardysShadow's suggested answer above)

However, if it is correct, it was probably EDF themselves that re-opened your account to account for any discrepency in what was the final bill and when a new account holder agreed to take over the supply (dates / meter readings)

whitescar

'Premier': as I already said, EDF have confirmed that my account with them was closed at the time I moved from the property. They then have records of me re-opening the account some time later (a year or two I think).

Also, the landlord is relevant as it means I do not know the landlord for the time period the bill is for, have never known them, and cannot possibly have contact details for them, so I cannot get any evidence from them confirming I was not a tenant at that time. Even if I could find contact details again for the landlord when i was there he would only be able to confirm I moved out when he sold the house, which EDF already know as they have records of my account with them being closed at that point. They seem to think I moved in again later, when the property was owned by a new landlord. In summary, all the evidence I can offer shows what EDF already know - that I rented the property at time 1 under the first landlord and moved out at the end. I don't see any possible way in which I can provide evidence that I did NOT then return to the property under a new landlord, as I have no idea who he was, or who else was a tenant. You keep saying someone can hold accounts at more than one property, so if there was an account at 4 Imaginary Terrace, Glasgow, in your name in 2003, could you tell me how you'd prove you weren't liable for that (in a way that didn't involve proving where you actually were living in 2003, cos you keep saying that's irrelevant)?