"Daybreak confusion over pensions today – apology" blog discussion

edited 15 February 2011 at 12:09PM in Martin's Blogs & Appearances & MoneySavingExpert in the News
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  • JimmyTheWigJimmyTheWig Forumite
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    brianrhill wrote: »
    Firstly, pensions are investments.
    I thought pensions were wrappers, rather than investments in their own right??

    As far as the clip, I think what Martin said was fine.
    Can you just take the money out of your pension fund when you retire? No, you can't!
    In general people get annuities and that was relevant to what was being talked about.

    Has anyone who studied physics or mechanics at A-level written in to their teacher and complained that the Newtonian laws they taught were not totally accurate and subject to tweaks from Einstein's theories? It's just not particularly relevant.

    I think the time and audience were totally relevant. To explore every avenue in the available time would have confused the audience. And who would have benefitted from that?


    In general, I think that it's probably worth Martin mentioning something along the lines of "it's always best to get independent professional advice when looking into retirement options" when mentioning pensions.


    Oh, but a more glaring mistake in the Daybreak clip was the female (Venus) symbol in the background was pointing south-west rather than south!
  • edited 16 February 2011 at 11:23AM
    SnowManSnowMan Forumite
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    edited 16 February 2011 at 11:23AM
    brianrhill wrote: »

    Firstly, pensions are investments.
    I thought pensions were wrappers, rather than investments in their own right??

    Magnificent Jimmy. That made me laugh :T:D

    Yes cash can be held in a pension so pensions are most definitely not investments, they are a wrapper as you say. A truly appalling error from brianrhill. Again his own advice applies to himself.

    brianrhill wrote: »

    This sort of comment should be checked by an appropriately qualified person before being put in the public domain.

    And in relation to his other comment...........

    brianrhill wrote: »

    My suggestion to Martin is that in the same way he steps back from advising on investments, he should do the same with pensions, until such time as he does have the relevant experience and expertise.

    My suggestion to brianrhill is that he steps back from advising clients at present on pensions until he has the relevant experience and expertise.
    I came, I saw, I melted
  • edited 16 February 2011 at 11:37AM
    brianrhillbrianrhill Forumite
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    edited 16 February 2011 at 11:37AM
    SnowMan wrote: »
    Magnificent Jimmy. That made me laugh :T:D

    Yes cash can be held in a pension so pensions are most definitely not investments, they are a wrapper as you say. A truly appalling error from brianrhill. Again his own advice applies to himself.

    And in relation to his other comment...........

    My suggestion to brianrhill is that he steps back from advising clients at present on pensions until he has the relevant experience and expertise.


    Pension
    An investment that you pay into over time to provide you with an income when you retire.
    Source:http://www.moneymadeclear.org.uk/help/jargon/pq.html (FSA)

    Cash is an investment as much as equities. Hence the reason why a financial adviser must be investment qualified to advise on Cash ISA's.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser
    However, anything posted here is for discussion purposes only. It should not be considered as financial advice.
  • edited 16 February 2011 at 1:24PM
    SimonBeSimonBe Forumite
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    edited 16 February 2011 at 1:24PM
    Martin

    I am a Chartered Financial Planner and I use your site to help advise clients - for example its a geat source of accurate data on bank accounts, savings rates etc. For this I thank you and encourage you to contine your good work for consumers.

    I have joined the site today to offer you my support, I feel the hype & criticism from my industry is unjust. I did see the TV Interview live and therefore took your comments in context. The benefit of hindsight is wonderful.

    You answered the question in context and you rightly state that pensions was not the focus of the piece. So you made a small, innocent reaction (error would be too strong a word).

    To those in my industry, I understand the frustrations as Advisers we come up against but Martin is doing the right thing for clients - giving information and suggesting consumers seek advice.

    We are all on the same side here.
  • edited 16 February 2011 at 11:59AM
    SnowManSnowMan Forumite
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    edited 16 February 2011 at 11:59AM
    brianrhill wrote: »
    Pension
    An investment that you pay into over time to provide you with an income when you retire.
    Source:http://www.moneymadeclear.org.uk/help/jargon/pq.html (FSA)

    Cash is an investment as much as equities. Hence the reason why a financial adviser must be investment qualified to advise on Cash ISA's.

    You can argue over the tautology as much as you like. In fact tautology is the only way you can criticise what Martin said. If someone uses tautology to criticise what you say it is suddenly a different matter. How hypocritical.

    At the end of the day it is about getting things over in a clear and simple way and that is what Martin is an expert at, as Full Time IFA says.

    Some people are unable to get things across simply and clearly and just want to put others down. That seems to be your area of expertise.


    It is encouraging that some IFAs have posted in support of Martin. It does give some hope that there are good IFAs out there.
    I came, I saw, I melted
  • SnowMan wrote: »
    At the end of the day it is about getting things over in a clear and simple way and that is what Martin is an expert at.

    I support this - as long as what he is saying is correct. Fair enough?
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser
    However, anything posted here is for discussion purposes only. It should not be considered as financial advice.
  • edited 16 February 2011 at 1:06PM
    SnowManSnowMan Forumite
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    edited 16 February 2011 at 1:06PM
    brianrhill wrote: »
    I support this - as long as what he is saying is correct. Fair enough?

    Will you accept that Martin is the one of the best if not the best financial journalist by some way at getting money issues across in a simple and clear way? Do you think the annuity guide downloadable from this site is one of the best guides to annuities freely available out there?

    Obviously not. You prefer to continue to play at criticism.

    Do you really want the position where nobody dares go on national television to talk about pensions or money issues for fear that their words will be forensically analysed, twisted and taken out of context, and any slightest wrong word is pounced upon and formally complained about? Perhaps you do.

    Would a snooker fan want Ronnie O' Sullivan NOT to go out there in case he misses that difficult black along the rail for the 147? Why can't you marvel at the brilliance of getting to 140 rather than concentrating solely on the missed final black?

    I fear for anyone using your services.
    I came, I saw, I melted
  • edited 16 February 2011 at 1:52PM
    brianrhillbrianrhill Forumite
    169 Posts
    edited 16 February 2011 at 1:52PM
    SnowMan wrote: »
    Will you accept that Martin is the one of the best if not the best financial journalist by some way at getting money issues across in a simple and clear way? Do you think the annuity guide downloadable from this site is one of the best guides to annuities freely available out there?

    Obviously not. You prefer to continue to play at criticism.

    Do you really want the position where nobody dares go on national television to talk about pensions or money issues for fear that their words will be forensically analysed, twisted and taken out of context, and any slightest wrong word is pounced upon and formally complained about? Perhaps you do.

    Would a snooker fan want Ronnie O' Sullivan NOT to go out there in case he misses that difficult black along the rail for the 147? Why can't you marvel at the brilliance of getting to 140 rather than concentrating solely on the missed final black?

    I fear for anyone using your services.

    what a ridiculous post.

    Clearly Martin did not personally write the MSE annuity guide. It is a useful guide although the FSA recommends the guide provided by Moneymadeclear. I have also reiterated that I support MSE in making people more financially aware and indeed have Martin's book on our company website. Hardly playnig at criticism is it.

    The FSA believes it is critical that all communications with consumers are fair, clear and not misleading. This therefore means a certain amount of redtape, which is par for the course.

    Your point regarding Ronnie is comlpetely irrelevant and misses the point entirely.
    I am an Independent Financial Adviser
    However, anything posted here is for discussion purposes only. It should not be considered as financial advice.
  • JimmyTheWigJimmyTheWig Forumite
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    SnowMan wrote: »
    At the end of the day it is about getting things over in a clear and simple way and that is what Martin is an expert at, as Full Time IFA says.
    brianrhill wrote: »
    I support this - as long as what he is saying is correct. Fair enough?
    Not quite fair enough, actually.

    Sometimes it is more important to get the gist of your message across rather than be 100.0000% accurate.

    Consider my earlier analogy of the A-level teacher quoting Newton's laws.
    Or a year 9 maths teacher saying that there is no square root of minus 4.
    Or a primary school teacher saying that "3 into 2 doesn't go", or "you can't do 1 take away 2".

    Why would someone struggling to learn about square roots be interested in imaginary numbers? They wouldn't - in fact they'd be put off by them.
    Equally, why would someone listening to Martin talk about the changes to insurance be interested in other things you can do with your pension pot. They wouldn't - they'd be put off.


    Like SnowMan says, its about getting the point across.
    The issue with "investments" shows the same thing.
    When Martin says investments, he means stock market linked and other risk-related investments.
    And when he does, I for one understand him.

    It turns out from what you've said that that isn't quite the right terminology.
    I don't really care.
    I understand it.


    Some time ago there was a campaign to get older people to insulate their homes better. They used the correct language, saying "don't let the heat out".
    It wasn't very successful.
    They changed the language to the scientifically incorrect "don't let the cold in" and it made much more sense to the older people and was much more successful.
    Sometimes it's about getting the point across rather than accuracy.
  • HeinzHeinz Forumite
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    They're queuing up to catch you out Martin and jump when they think they have. Don't worry about it.
    Time has moved on (much quicker than it used to - or so it seems at my age) and my previous advice on residential telephony has been or is now gradually being overtaken by changes in the retail market. Hence, I have now deleted links to my previous 'pearls of wisdom'. I sincerely hope they helped save some of you money.
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