Gas Fire / Woodstove for warming up living room?

Floop1977

Hi,

I have moved into a 1930s built house which has gas central heating, however the ground floor is fairly open plan with a living/dining room (34m2 floorplan, 82m3 volume), and an adjoining kitchen (14m2 floorplan, 34m3 volume).

The living/dining room has two double radiators in it but the room never feels particularly warm, partly because of the size, and partly because the adjoining kitchen does not have heating and there is an open hatch between the two rooms.

I can run the central heating for hours which makes the upper floors really warm, because there are smaller rooms upstairs each with their own radiators. However the living/dining room never feels cosy.

In order to remedy this, I am considering installing either a balanced-flue gas fireplace (sealed) e.g. a Gazco Riva2, or a woodstove e.g. a Clearview.

I know standard gas fireplaces need outside venting which somewhat negates the point of warming up a room, hence the balanced flue option, but I have heard people talk about condensation issues. However, the convenience and efficiency factor seems very good. Has anybody got one of these who can comment on how effectively they can warm up a room?

I know woodstoves are really good at pumping out heat and definitely tick the box for making a room feel cosy, but they obviously require more work.

Has anybody got any experience of making such a decisions? Your opinions would be appreciated. Particularly with things like the right heat output that I should be looking for.

Many thanks,


Floop

Floop1977

Updated as realised I had given wrong values for room volume.

savemoney

Wood stoves are not cheap to install I think we paid over 2.5k over 3 years ago. Logs have also gone up in price there is only so much supply and I can see them going up even more given the popularity of log burners. If you go for one get a multi stove, coal gives off far more heat than logs do but is dirty

My stove does kick out a lot of heat but heat stays in a small area it doesnt really spread out thats why they sell stove fans but they are over £100

Bare in mine £30-£40 for annual chimney sweep and you must use seasoned logs, I paid last Oct £130 for a large truck load and will see me through until March I dont use it very day if I did I probably pay around £180-£200 on logs

Floop1977

Thanks for your help, it is much appreciated, but I'll be honest I'm still undecided.

I hear what you say about coal but I actually don't like the smell of coal for some reason!

So I'm still wavering in between the woodstove option, and the gas fire option.

Any other advice from people in similar positions would be gratefully received.

DVardysShadow

I would say that your radiators are probably undersized and mislocated. It would be cheaper to put that right

Widelats

Floop1977 wrote: »

Thanks for your help, it is much appreciated, but I'll be honest I'm still undecided.

I hear what you say about coal but I actually don't like the smell of coal for some reason!

So I'm still wavering in between the woodstove option, and the gas fire option.

Any other advice from people in similar positions would be gratefully received.

I just moved into a property that the previous tenant had been using anthracite coals, it was disgustingly dirty all over the flat and stinking badly, but i would not mind the work of a wood burner fire for the benefits it gives, specially when a wood burner can heat your radiators as well.

Floop1977

DVardysShadow wrote: »

I would say that your radiators are probably undersized and mislocated. It would be cheaper to put that right

I expect you are right about that. It's a fairly big room but only has two radiators, both are double radiators and 95cm long. I've just got home from being away and the ambient temperature in the living room was 11°. I turned the heating on and an hour later it has warmed up to 12°... one degree... not impressed so far!

Widelats wrote: »

I just moved into a property that the previous tenant had been using anthracite coals, it was disgustingly dirty all over the flat and stinking badly, but i would not mind the work of a wood burner fire for the benefits it gives, specially when a wood burner can heat your radiators as well.

I have heard that a wood burner can heat radiators too, but to do so you have to have a really roaring fire - anything less and the radiators often won't get anything more than lukewarm.

While a roaring fire sounds nice on a winter's evening it sounds a hassle to maintain on a daily basis, especially in the summer, in order to have hot water. But that's a personal choice.

I just want a way to have a really warm living room, on demand. The central heating can warm up the other rooms when necessary, and I have electric showers.

bobthedambuilder

I suggest you first determine whether the radiators in the cold rooms are up to the task. I designed all the heating for a barn conversion 5 years ago and found a very good site which had a btu calculator. I don't know how to post a link, but if you log onto www.heatandplumb.com, click on Heating, then Radiators, and scroll to the bottom of the page, you'll find a BTU calculator for any size/location of room, taking into account such things as windows, outside walls, insulation etc. This calculator worked perfectly for me - all radiators I designed with this calculator work fine and heat the rooms they're in perfectly. You will get the BTU value of any size radiator from the catalogue.

If it's a case of the radiators being undersized, replacing them is obviously going to be your cheapest option. Take the opportunity to fit them with thermostatic valves and you shouldn't have to worry about differential temperatures throughout the house.

I've also got a couple of woodburning stoves, but I use them for effect rather than necessity - I have to turn the heating in the rooms off if I have them working. You can design the sizing of these using the same tool as I have indicated above.

Floop1977

Hi,

Thanks for that link. I used the Heatandplumb website and entered values to take into account the living room and kitchen, which is next door with a free air-flow. It suggested that I needed 5002 watts, or 17067 BTUs, to heat the space properly.

I have measured up the radiators that I have in that space, and comparing them with the closest match on that website, it appears I have 2 x 1473 watts (or 2 x 5027 BTUs), giving 2946 watts total (or 10054 BTUs total) of heat output.

This indicates that I only have about 58% of the heating capacity for the area, hence why it is taking so long to warm up. So, DVardysShadow and BobTheDamBuilder you are both right, my radiators are undersized.

I am going to get a quote for replacement radiators with higher heat outputs, and installation of possibly an extra radiator or two, for comparison purposes.

However I still like the idea of a woodburner or gas fire because they give off a different kind of warmth - and am still trying to work out which is best when balancing cost / heat output / convenience / beauty...

Thanks to everyone who has helped so far.

bobthedambuilder

For me, there's nothing like the ambiance that a woodburning stove gives - they can be expensive to install, needing a chimney / flue, but you can get the stove itself relatively cheap. (However you can also pay a fortune for a designer stove if you want!). They are much cleaner and more efficient than an open fire.

If you're only using them from time to time, they are not expensive to run - I only use one basket of logs for a full day's burning. TBH, I haven't paid for logs since I installed them - I had a few trees to chop down in the garden, and am still using the logs from them after allowing them to season.

I would only have one thing to say on the con side, and that is that the heat is not all that controllable - you've got to get them up to a certain temperature for efficient and clean burning, and if you oversize the stove, you run the danger of the room ending up like a sauna! All the more important to do the BTU calculation and get a stove as near as possible to the design BTU.

NB I notice you mentioned Clearview in the original post - that's what I've got.

DVardysShadow

Floop1977 wrote: »

.... This indicates that I only have about 58% of the heating capacity for the area, hence why it is taking so long to warm up. So, DVardysShadow and BobTheDamBuilder you are both right, my radiators are undersized.

I am going to get a quote for replacement radiators with higher heat outputs, and installation of possibly an extra radiator or two, for comparison purposes.

If you are going for a quote, then look at the positioning of your radiators. They should be under the windows [controversial for non tech people] - so get a quote for having them moved. Ask for at least 15% over size and thermostatic valves - these should cost no more than £5 extra each if done as part of the install.