How will reclaiming bank charges impact banking discussion

Ernest

Hi,

I guess you could say that I have also been "Lazy, blameful, bad with money, stupid" etc etc, and at so many points in my life have I been hit with a charge for what is no more than poor management of my finances. During and after those times I have been angry with both myself for the error and also angry at my bank for penalising me.

I now have an agreed overdraft and am rarely charged as my income has increased substantially, however I have not always been this fortunate.

I do not feel that things are as black & white as "manage your finances better" and comments like this are narrow minded and avoid the whole issue. People who feel this may not have as clear a view of the big picture as they might think.


Banks will still make huge profits from other areas of the business, personal banking is only one of many areas that help the banks to smash profit records year after year. My point here is, why do some of the people on this thread feel that it is the fault of the less fortunate that banks may start to charge service fees?

My knowledge of this area of the subject is not great, but why is it that you people accept that the banks "need" to make record breaking profits! WHY DO THEY? I "need" my money back! Just because people no longer tolerate being subject to these unfair penalties, why will it be necessary for the banks to start a brand new charging campaign?

Some of the penalties charged by banks are more than the penalties being handed out for driving offences - which put lives at risk! Off the issue I know, but want to put a little perspective on the word "proportionate".

Another totally bias opinion I know.

Keep up the great work Martin and co.

Steve

EAB2

Thanks to this site the banks are going to start charging people like me – who run their accounts properly – a monthly or annual charge for the pleasure.

First Direct has already started and you can bet the rest will follow. Barclays has promised not to for the forseeable future, but rest assured once one of the big ones do the rest will follow. Lloyds today announced that it will charge a fee for credit card owners that do not 'regularly' use their cards.

We will end up in a situation where you get charged for taking cash out of your OWN bank's cashpoint. This happens in America already.

This has all come about because if the 'reclaim unfair bank charges' issue that this web site is 'proud' of.

Martin writes...
"The law is plain: any charges banks levy on their customers must be proportional to the actual costs they incur. The simple question is, does it really cost £35 to send an automated letter when someone’s gone 1p over the limit?"

No it doesn't. The trouble is the law is taking this from thewrong angle. The cost that a bank incurs to send this letter isnt relevant, it is a charge for mismanagement of the account. Whilst I agree that it is exhorbitant to charge this fee, it is CLEARLY stated in any literature you get when you open a bank account. The charge is not unfair at all. You were warned.

People need to learn to manage their money properly, and if you get charged for going over your limit, then you have failed and perhaps the fine will stop you doing it again. But no, you had to go and spoil it didnt you Martin!

refundmeplze!

:mad: Banks make absolutley MASSIVE profits, they can easily afford to pay peoples charges back. I think that charging for accounts is just a sort of retalliation tactic. Charging for accounts is something that would have happened anyway at some point.I think that you are blaming the wrong people- how about blaming the banks, it is them who have decided to charge for accounts, not the actions of people using this site.

Louling06

I completely disagree with that post!
What about charges that come about through no fault of the customer.
My fiance was with Nationwide for as long as he ha been banking and always kept his bank account up to date!
The last 2 to 3 years the account was opened Nationwide decided they were going to reject direct debits when there was enough money in the account ot cover them. They then charged him £30 for doing this.
The total that we know of came to around £350. I'm in the process of going through his account to check they haven't done this before hand.
Do you think this is fair?
I certainly don't and I'm sure that most people would agree with me!
Not all people find it easy to manage their accounts properly, and it can't always be helped so who are you to say that these charges are fair, when you don't know the financial difficulty that these charges add to and cause for other people!

nickmack

EABowden wrote:

Thanks to this site the banks are going to start charging people like me – who run their accounts properly – a monthly or annual charge for the pleasure.

It's a pity, you take this attitude. This site helps many people, and it's a shame when people think only of themselves.

This has all come about because if the 'reclaim unfair bank charges' issue that this web site is 'proud' of.

Rightly proud they are, because many people have reclaimed what's rightfully theirs.

Martin writes...
"The law is plain: any charges banks levy on their customers must be proportional to the actual costs they incur. The simple question is, does it really cost £35 to send an automated letter when someone’s gone 1p over the limit?"

No it doesn't. The trouble is the law is taking this from thewrong angle. The cost that a bank incurs to send this letter isnt relevant, it is a charge for mismanagement of the account. Whilst I agree that it is exhorbitant to charge this fee, it is CLEARLY stated in any literature you get when you open a bank account. The charge is not unfair at all. You were warned.

I'm afraid you don't understand the situation properly.

Terms and Conditions cannot be enforced if the contract is not applied in a lawful and reasonable way. It makes no difference whatsoever that the customer signed these terms, if a clause is unlawful, it is unenforcable. It could be printed in 100ft high letters, it makes no difference.

I'm afraid it doesn't matter what you think of these customers, this is how it works. I suggest if you disagree with the law, you take it up with the government.

Ernest

EABowden wrote:

People need to learn to manage their money properly, and if you get charged for going over your limit, then you have failed and perhaps the fine will stop you doing it again. But no, you had to go and spoil it didnt you Martin!

Good point - NOT

Another narrow-minded opinion! Are things really so simple in your eyes? Do you also blame me for the war in Iraq?? No! Why do you blame us for what the banks may or may not do! Its silly logic!

Thanks to this site for continuously educating me!

mustrum_ridcully

To be honest I am livid that there is the potential that everyone will have to pay for those who can't control their money properly. I accept that some people have been charged because the bank made a mistake, but they are in the minority.

Did those that advocated the reclaim of penalty fees really think the banks would sit back and just take it? They are in business of making money - they ain't a charity so of course they are going to claw back the money!

Oh and yes I've been charged a penalty fee once purely because I was too lazy to pay a cheque in before the Christmas hols one year. Would I claim the fee back, no (I couldn't anyway as it was years ago), I knew I had to pay the cheque in but didn't so I have no body to blame but myself. I tell you that penalty made damn bloomin sure I've never done that again.

nickmack

mustrum_ridcully wrote:

To be honest I am livid that there is the potential that everyone will have to pay for those who can't control their money properly. I accept that some people have been charged because the bank made a mistake, but they are in the minority.

It doesn't matter whether mistakes were made or people deliberately incurred charges. The penalty charge is unlawful and cannot be enforced. Yes, some people need to manage their money better, but many claimants have genuine problems with money that are not necessarily their fault.

Did those that advocated the reclaim of penalty fees really think the banks would sit back and just take it? They are in business of making money - they ain't a charity so of course they are going to claw back the money!

No one is under any illusion that banks are not profit making businesses.

But with any business, profit has to be made lawfully. Would you rather be the customer of a business that knowingly charges you unlawfully and then refuses to even acknowledge this or a business that has fees honestly and lawfully applied?

PaulW922

All the OFT said, and you can read in yourself in their statement, wa sthat charges over £12 would automatically be considered unlawful. It went on to say that this did not mean charges up to that amount were ok

Jarlawuk

Just seems that a lot of people are using the knowledge that they can reclaim their bank charges to be reckless with their money, as they know that they don't have to worry about fines since they will get it all back.

It's fair enough to claim excessive charges once, but to do it time and time again just shows a blatant disregard for your own financial situation. Yes the charges are excessive, but not one forces anybody to overspend.

Also despite breaching the terms and conditions of the account quite clearly (and knowingly), don't really see anyone turning around and saying "£5 would be a fair charge so I just want the difference back".