CSA- Going self employed

speedster

Countryboy wrote: »

Hi Cinders 30

Re you query on the above.

I went self employed (due to redundancy) in March 2010. For around 10 weeks I came to an agreement with the CSA to pay £100 per month until I could produce some accounts. The reason I could do this is that my wife is working but if you both have no income you can negotiate with the CSA on this figure. After I had produced my accounts, I was assessed and my liability was nowhere near the £100 per month. I received a refund from the CSA within a few weeks which was back dated to March. Hope this helps.

PS: For those on here who gripe about NRPs going self employed - are you not up to speed with the real world and the fact that no job is safe at the moment? Surely far better to get off your backside and make something of yourself rather than the prospect of sitting around claiming benefits.

oh, no, no, no, no.

that wouldn't be acceptable behaviour on here.

the NRP should and MUST stay in any dead end job and pay over 40% of his salary until the kids are at least 30.

well, that would be the case if the hens on here had their way.

mrsspendalot

Countryboy wrote: »

PS: For those on here who gripe about NRPs going self employed - are you not up to speed with the real world and the fact that no job is safe at the moment? Surely far better to get off your backside and make something of yourself rather than the prospect of sitting around claiming benefits.

I have to say I do agree with this sentiment. I am both NRPP and PWC. As the PWC of someone who has avoided maintenance payments for a year now, I feel strongly that NRPs should pay their way - however, I also think it should be fair. If my NRP went self-employed because it was going to lead to a better job I doubt I could argue. If he did it purely to avoid paying, yes I would be annoyed and would fight it. It seems the OP is genuinely trying to do better for themselves, and good on them. It is far better than being on benefits.

As an NRPP I think it is perfectly reasonable for the NRP to want to better themselves in some way. Why not? Redundancies are going to come thick and fast in a lot of areas of employment and there needs to be a plan B rather than just going onto benefits.

My husband left a job in the public sector due to ill health and long term sick. He wasn't going to be able to return to the job he was in, and would have got the push. We talked about options and we decided that now would be a good time to take a career change and retrain, whilst getting his health back to 100% (well, as near as anyway as there are some things which aren't going to get better). He is doing a degree now with a view to then taking a PGCE to train as a teacher. I work and support him to be able to do this. It has been the best thing he could have done, and he is loving it. Currently, he has a nil assessment (as a student) with the CSA after the PWC became unhappy with their reduced private arrangement. However, when he qualifies as a teacher, he will be on a better wage than he was before. Do we feel bad that he has a nil assessment? No - we offered a private arrangement and the PWC turned it down!!! We didn't push for a nil assessment, they asked for evidence he was a student and we sent it in, and a nil assessment came back. If she came to us tomorrow and said she wanted to close the CSA case and take a private arrangement, we wouldn't hesitate to sort something out.

Everyone deserves a second chance at life, happiness, education, employment opportunties, marriage etc. Having children to someone from a previous marriage/relationship should not mean that all other doors for the future are instantly closed in your face. The PWC (myself included) is able to move on and have more family and make lifestyle choices without guilt, so in fairness why shouldn't the NRP have the same choices available to them?

speedster

mrsspendalot wrote: »

I have to say I do agree with this sentiment. I am both NRPP and PWC. As the PWC of someone who has avoided maintenance payments for a year now, I feel strongly that NRPs should pay their way - however, I also think it should be fair. If my NRP went self-employed because it was going to lead to a better job I doubt I could argue. If he did it purely to avoid paying, yes I would be annoyed and would fight it. It seems the OP is genuinely trying to do better for themselves, and good on them. It is far better than being on benefits.

As an NRPP I think it is perfectly reasonable for the NRP to want to better themselves in some way. Why not? Redundancies are going to come thick and fast in a lot of areas of employment and there needs to be a plan B rather than just going onto benefits.

My husband left a job in the public sector due to ill health and long term sick. He wasn't going to be able to return to the job he was in, and would have got the push. We talked about options and we decided that now would be a good time to take a career change and retrain, whilst getting his health back to 100% (well, as near as anyway as there are some things which aren't going to get better). He is doing a degree now with a view to then taking a PGCE to train as a teacher. I work and support him to be able to do this. It has been the best thing he could have done, and he is loving it. Currently, he has a nil assessment (as a student) with the CSA after the PWC became unhappy with their reduced private arrangement. However, when he qualifies as a teacher, he will be on a better wage than he was before. Do we feel bad that he has a nil assessment? No - we offered a private arrangement and the PWC turned it down!!! We didn't push for a nil assessment, they asked for evidence he was a student and we sent it in, and a nil assessment came back. If she came to us tomorrow and said she wanted to close the CSA case and take a private arrangement, we wouldn't hesitate to sort something out.

Everyone deserves a second chance at life, happiness, education, employment opportunties, marriage etc. Having children to someone from a previous marriage/relationship should not mean that all other doors for the future are instantly closed in your face. The PWC (myself included) is able to move on and have more family and make lifestyle choices without guilt, so in fairness why shouldn't the NRP have the same choices available to them?

here,here.

one of the most balanced, objective and insightful posts on this thread. :beer:

there is too much emphasis on the NRP having to live and plan their lives around their eldest children while the PWC can do as they please regardless of what the NRP says or thinks. often with the threat of cutting contact thrown into the pot too.

and as for your oh's ex, cutting nose off to spite her face springs to mind.

almost as pigheaheded and blinkered as a few round here......

clearingout

I guess the real issue to contend with as a PWC is the lack of control over someone else's decisions which have a major impact on the way you live your life. In a relationship with children, a decision to go self-employed would (in most cases anyway), be a joint decision. So if it didn't work out or if household income were reduced, you'd be doing it together as an adventure and for that better future. I think as an NRP embarking on the same adventure, you do have to understand that there is a related impact on another household and that could mean (and certainly does in my case) that children have to go without as a result. That's a hard thing to have to explain or deal with. It feels unfair.

Don't get me wrong, I can rationalise it all and see that it's reasonable and yes, certainly better than being on benefits and yes, everyone should take a shot if a shot comes their way. But slating those of us left with the care of children who struggle to bring them up to the standard we had envisaged for them doesn't really help, does it? We all have opinions, we all see things slightly differently. The most important thing in my life right now is to do right by OUR children. For my ex, they're about as close to the bottom of his priority list as they can possibly come - or at least that's how it seems. He might see it differently but given that he won't discuss anything with me, how would I know? It's THAT which causes conflict. Communication is key - trying to develop a decent relationship with the PWC and being open and honest about what you're up to. I know some of us are a nightmare, but we're not all like that, honest!!!

speedster

yup.

communication is the key, for sure.

unfortunately, communication in my case was nigh on impossible. my ex is "one of those pwc" who knows everything, is always right, and OWNS our daughter so thinks she can make all the decisions. my views, rights and opinions don't matter. i just get the privilidge of paying.

luckily, the judge thought otherwise and ripped her to shreds over her attitude. amazing how, when someone in authority reinforces what i had been saying for years, she had no choice but back down and wind her neck in. :j

missbunbury

Regardless of the moral ins-and-outs of this one, the real question is still somewhat outstanding. To me, the key question is: in child support law, what does it say about how a change of circumstances of this nature should be handled? I am not an expert but I believe that the CSA's stance here is that they have been notified of a change in circumstance, which they require evidence of in order to make a new maintenance calculation. Because the evidence they require will take time to gather (i.e you won't have books until you've traded for however many weeks) they are unable to do the new calculation yet.

Now, under their rules, when they do do the new calculation, it will be backdated to the first day in the maintenance period in which they were informed of the change. In the meantime, however, they are right to say that you have to continue paying the current rate. If when they do the change and backdate it you have overpaid for the period in between, they can reduce future payments to reflect this. If you don't make the payments as required, they can take action against you. In practice, if the reassessment is done within a reasonable timescale, there's only so much action they are going to have taken by the time the reassessment backdates and wipes out the apparent debt.

Of course, none of this has anything to do with the morals of the situation which are much more dependent on the unknowable individual circumstances.

POPPYOSCAR

What happens then if he becomes unemployed and then starts the business say a month later?

Cinders30

Countryboy wrote: »

Hi Cinders 30

Re you query on the above.

I went self employed (due to redundancy) in March 2010. For around 10 weeks I came to an agreement with the CSA to pay £100 per month until I could produce some accounts. The reason I could do this is that my wife is working but if you both have no income you can negotiate with the CSA on this figure. After I had produced my accounts, I was assessed and my liability was nowhere near the £100 per month. I received a refund from the CSA within a few weeks which was back dated to March. Hope this helps.

PS: For those on here who gripe about NRPs going self employed - are you not up to speed with the real world and the fact that no job is safe at the moment? Surely far better to get off your backside and make something of yourself rather than the prospect of sitting around claiming benefits.

Thank you so much for this response it is exactly what i was looking for. When i got advice from the CSA she did say we could try and negotiate a smaller figure for a few weeks but i wanted to know if anyone had actually been successful in doing so.

Does the PWC still get the higher amount then or do they only get what you pay? Not too sure how that work?

I was told that we would get a refund if we had overpayed BUT i wasn't altogether sure whether that would be true.!

Countryboy

HI Cinders 30

As far as I know the PWC only gets the amount that you negotiate and not sure if she is the one who pays back any overpayment or the Secretary of State.

Remember though, the assessment based on his first two or three months accounts will be back dated to the date that you informed the CSA of going self employed and, as most new businesses do not make any profit (some may even make a loss) during the first few months and sometimes even in the first year, your liability may probably turn out to be minimal and most of the payments that you have negotiated with them will be refunded anyway.

My first year of self employment is nearly up so I am now waiting for the brown envelope through the door asking for my first year's tax return to enable them to re-assess but as I have just about broken even during my first year (fully expected I might add) they won't have much to work on.

I would also add that I did try to make a private arrangement with the PWC before going self employed but she did not want to know so she really only has herself to blame for the sitation she finds herself in now. She wanted to play by the book so playing by the book I am!

Also,after you have sent in the accounts you should keep pestering the CSA for an assessment as they drag their heals when it comes to SE assessments.

speedster

very similar situation to me.

isn't it amazing how they want to go by the rules when it suits them. mind you, my ex played the system, lied through her teeth and cut contact to get me a higher assessment.

but strange how she didn't like it when i returned the favour with creative accounting.

and i wasn't the one lying either, i left that to her.