"Don't cut £25m of debt counselling..." blog discussion

lemonjelly

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-12400162

Interesting exchange in the House of Lords on this subject.

The voluntary sector is good value for money & should be seen as the solution, rather than having its funding cut.

Despite this, it seems the Barnoness feels it is a local authority matter, not a government matter.

In theory then, this means lobbying local councillors rather than MP's.

Somewhat a use of the divide & conquer tactics methinks.

Plus, LA's didn't decide to pull FIF funding, that WAS a government decision (& it was made 2 months later than it should have been).

SwipernoSwiping

Martin... C.A.B and Debt Advice on the whole needs saving, it does indeed need co-ordinating with a passion. While many of the volunteers can raise awareness on twitter or such their reach is indeed limited. The responses on this thread show that. The fact that the East Riding CAB is cutting it's paid staff - volunteering (as my husband does there) is fine (and very rewarding) but it can not pay the bills.

Should the state pay for debt advice?

Does the state cause it? Superstars aren't going to stick their oar in -in fairness it would mean bringing themselves into some very rough areas. Despite the status it will bring them!

Does it matter who is to blame for who causes these people to get into debt? Martin has already started to solve that problem by bringing financial education into schools. It will take much more than that though.

CAB might well be a heck of a lot more "profitable" if it was better at promoting itself and what it does. It saved my parents sanity when their business failed - putting a fabulous wall between debtors and themselves - it has helped me when my relationship broke down and I had to find my way through complex benefits and CSA, housing rights. They have helped me fight with a rogue landlord for letting a substandard property, and finally given my husband his self esteem back, and awareness of his legal abilities in a country that is rapidly turning in on itself. - C.A.B is being hit from all sides, legal aid cuts, voluntary funding cuts, lack of willing volunteers as they need to pay bills..

My husband has over £60,000 worth of student loans to his name in another country, trained in legal representation and is glad to put some of his education to use. He'd love to be paid for it, but he needs to cover his repayments, family and bills, so C.A.B looses out to Student Loans. (At this point I can see a perilous path that may well mirror that of the USA for the future of our students - but thats a different issue. )

I moderate on a very popular national parenting board, and I am astounded at how many people are unaware of where they can go to get free debt advice, (and benefit,legal...etc help) it causes so much stress in a relationship, on a child, and we all know it's one of the major causes of a breakup. Money. Investing in something accessible - and very aware - that can cope with the demand.. would benefit the health of the nations pockets as well as their hearts.

I have wandered off topic, my apologies. Most CAB places have a waiting time. Over subscribed. I would happily pay £1 for the service - sure it won't cover the cost of staffing, lighting, office space, paper, training... but it would help fill a hole. Many can afford £1 where they can't find £175 for a solicitor or worse as advertised on TV.

Martin pull a campaign together, please do, if you have the time. Debt Advice is never more important as the government messes with benefits, csa payments potentially costing its users, and the desire to "own it all" consuming everyone.
Facebook, tv, and a very big petition. I'll help where I can... for what it's worth.

Pembroke

Martin if you want suggestions as to celebrities to link up with then A. John Bird from The Big Issue would be an obvious choice. He already has the clout and the connections and this loss of debt funding will, if followed to it's ultimate conclusion lead to more work for his organisation so it would make sense to get him on board with your campaign.

andy12345

All the debate will do nothing.

People are property and cattle of government and it won't change anytime soon. Just look at history....

There may have been periods where people were considered more free and richer in some ways, but now it's a simple system...
The best way to control is to apply the pressure bit by bit over time.
We have more rights in some areas, but in others' they are still just plain weird.

For instance, when was the last time that anyone or any group significantly changed anything by sheer force of logic or speech?

With this fund cut, a lot will change.
__________________
Anyway, enough of that, I do have a question....

Is there a proposed system which will actually replace and keep the quality of what we are going to lose?

Also, £25 million is nothing in this country. It's a blip.

Anyone of use could find plenty of ways to balance this £25m.
Probably looking at the NHS and other quangos would be a good idea.
Look at pharmacy drugs called "specials" which have been in the paper recently......you will probably not be shocked though lol.

If there is one thing that Government needs to change about debt issues, it is to create a system that has 3rd party monitoring of communications between creditors and debtors in case of disputes

So many letters are ignored/lost when the desired answer is not received and the creditors know that a percentage of people are suffering mental issues which may make them reluctant to deal with the problem.

Why bully them? Instead create a secure electronic system that has full tracing of email communications etc so that neither side can backtrack.... This would protect the interests' of both sides.

There are plenty of ways to secure electronic communications and everyone does have access to ecomms, directly or indirectly.

Sorry for rambling.

SwipernoSwiping

I have to say ..with the attitude and approach from some replies I have read here and other posts leading here .. the "Whats the point, it doesn't make a difference" won't. Spend money where it is needed.

Do we need roads for cars we can't afford to put petrol in any more?
Building sites for shops we can't afford to buy in - to help us build yet more debt? NHS? To busy chasing after itself and the goal posts they keep changing?

The "I don't use it so I don't care" also won't make a difference. There are very few people in this world like Martin it seems that realises the good in things - in the over all picture and how it effects the population from top down - and vice-versa.

So quick to blame and walk away some people as if that solves the problem. Its not just us lowly sorts either... MP's sit and do it every day in HoP "It's not our fault..we we're left any money.. blame them!"

The councils care only interested meeting targets and earning more and more money to keep the books balanced. LA aide Debt advice agencys are ill supported from year to year so lack organisation. One in our town doesn't know where it is from year to year.. so nor do the people. LA's themselves tend to look out for themselves- and their pension schemes.
The government does for the "greater good" so where is the loudest voice? Which side of the populace will make the least fuss.. how can it be sneaked passed us with misleading headlines.

There is a bubble in which to many of us live - if it doesn't effect me I don't need to worry. It is that bubble that causes speeding issues, debt problems, housing issues, educational shortages.

I realise I live in a idealistic bubble but I hope those that are not currently effected will ever be affected by the withdrawal of financial funding.

fermi

A new MSE article now up.

MPs' anger at debt advice cuts NEW!

amj236

These cuts are going to hurt the people that need help the most its ridiculous and the government should be ashamed. I have volunteered for a year for the CAB and the work they do is amazing and their caseloads are huge I live in one of the most deprived areas of Wales and these cuts are going to really really hurt.

shadowside

I think its absolutely critical that a clear distinction is drawn between the cuts to FIF funding and cuts to CAB funding from LA's.

Having removed ring fencing there is very little central government can do about the latter and it needs to be thrashed out locally.

FIF is purely a central government issue and could be solved overnight by the government agreeing to continue funding until a permanent solution is found

For our bureau FIF represents 25% of our income and withdrawal will impact all of our advice areas as we struggle to fill the gap.

Surely such a stupid stupid decision cannot be allowed to stand

superbargainhunter

Dear all
As has been said the consultation on the cuts to legal aid will end on Mon 14th Feb - so please act NOW!

:money:Martin please use all media appearances to publise this campaign eg R4 You and Yours on Fri at 12noon. Please make a huge fuss about this - you can really help us.
Please do an emergency email to everyone who has signed up for the weekly email -just about this - it is that important.

Everyone please sign the petition Say no to legal aid cuts - google it and you will find the petition.

Please everyone - cut and paste this and email it to everyone you know and get them to contact their MP.

Please use some of the following and use "write to them" - (google it)
to contact your MP about this. The more fuss we make the better the chance of stopping this happening.

Legal aid is not just for lawyers - all advice agencies including the CAB are funded by legal aid for specialist advice eg debt, welfare, housing and employment. The total cuts to legal aid amount to £25m - this is not much in the context of government spending, but provides essential advice for some of the most vulnerable people in society.

According to Gillian Guy, the Chief Executive of CAB, these cuts to legal aid - together with cuts to funding from local goverment will cut the income of the average CAB by 45%. This will mean bureaux closing.

According to the Citizens Advice Cost benefit analysis, July 2010, based on data from the Civil and Social Justice Survey and the Legal Service Commission's outcomes data:
Every £1 spent on housing legal aid potentially saves the state £2.34 by avoiding adverse consequences.
Every £1 spent on debt legal aid potentially saves the state £2.98 in adverse consequences.
Every £1 spent on benefits legal aid potentially saves the state £8.80.
Every £1 spent on employment legal aid potentially saves the state £7.13.
Source: Citizen's Advice (july 2010) Towards a business case for legal aid.

According to Julie Bishop, Director of the Law Centres Federation, the proposed cuts to legal aid will have perverse conseqences.
The changes propose that you will only get housing legal aid if you are in "imminent danger" of losing your home.
If your landlord evicts you illegally - by changing the locks while you are at work and dumping your possessions on the pavement - you will not be able to get legal aid because you will have already lost your home.
If your landlord employs a solicitor and takes you to court to evict you legally - you will be able to get legal aid as you will be in imminent danger of losing your home.
This will build into the system an incentive for landlords to evict people illegally and we expect an increase in illegal evictions.

Good quality timely intervention acts to prevent client's problems from becoming major crises. Please ask the government to stop these cuts to legal aid.

Please stop this happening and fight the cuts. I am a volunteer at my local bureau and heard Julie Bishop speak at a conference yesterday (Mon 8th Feb) which is why I can quote her.
Thankyou

ricbureau

A total of £130m was allocated by the last government to increase the provision of free face-to-face debt advice, focusing on areas and social groups suffering from high proportions of financial exclusion.
Sixteen advice providers, including Citizens Advice, were selected by the Department of Trade and Industry – now the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills – to share the money, and since 2006 these services have helped:

• 379,000 people manage more than £6bn of debt.

• 3,000 families stay in their homes, resulting in a £150m saving to the courts and mortgage lenders in court and repossession costs.

• create an estimated £700m in annual cost savings for the NHS because of avoided mental health problems and stress.

• creditors recover an estimated £300m more of their debt than they would have recovered without the service.

Advice has been provided via an extensive network of outreach settings, including local community centres, housing associations, probation offices, Sure Start Centres, council offices and GP practises, to vulnerable people who would not normally feel comfortable about seeking formal debt advice. The service needs £30m a year to continue.

This is what it means FIF.

I am a FIF adviser since 2006. I have seen and helped over 895 clients since then in Breckland (East Anglia) area alone.

I have lost the count of the number of times that i have defended mortgage repossessions at court...I have lost the count of times that clients coming in into my office talking about suicide and left with a smile on their faces...I have lost the count of numerous working weeks over 45h...Like me we have another 499 advisers across the country that have done the same...

I have at the moment 138 ongoing cases...some of them quite easy to resolve others more complex ones..this is only me...if we add this 138 cases to all the other cases that are being dealt by my colleagues across the country we can surely say that we are talking about thousands...thousands of people that will not have any support any more to deal with finances,benefits,etc...

Personally i look back and i see that work has been done.Hard work.Positive work.

It is a honour to be able to serve my local community and it will be devastating not to be able to continue doing so.

One word for the politicians:

Imagine yourselves unemployed all the suddenly,living on £65.45/Week(Job Seeker Allowance) and with all your financial commitments being left behind...To whom you are going to turn to?

R L
Money Advice Specialist
(Funded by FIF)