"Don't cut £25m of debt counselling..." blog discussion

Daisy_Bell

ricbureau wrote: »

Do you have any idea of what it is living(try to live) on £65.45/week(Job Seekers Allowance)?
Yes - I do and all the more reason not to take out loans! It is purely because I have always had to live on a very low income myself, that (apart from a mortgage) I have never incurred any other debt! People should get their priorities right - roof over their heads - first priority, food in their bellies, second priority and clothes on their backs, third priority (and I don't mean ones with designer labels either!)

Mortgage payments interest only...Yes,it could help but not all lenders will agree as it will depend on your mortgage agreement.
Of course, it does help not to keep borrowing on the equity - thus pushing up the debt still further!

So and according to you 99% of the UK population should live based only on their income...no borrowing...yes?- Do you have any idea of what it would mean to the UK economy if there was not lending and borrowing?
Yes I DO think people should live based on their income and the fact that our economy is based almost solely on retail and consumerism (weak and shifting sand in fact) is what is wrong with it! It used to be built on the solid bedrock of manufacturing and export, but thanks to our pricing ourselves right out of the market, we have lost all that to the likes of China, India, etc., because they do not have to pay the high wages, deal with greedy Trades Unions and abide by all the (very often quite ridiculous) employment rights and laws imposed on us by the EU! It will not do the economy any good if consumers are not ultimately able to pay for the gooods they buy will it?

Did you know that due to the collapse of the financial markets we have now nearly 3 million people unemployed?
Yes of course I know - and all the more reason for people to live within their means! It does not make things better to get into debt!

And for last...Imagine yourself unemployed all the suddenly... £65.45/week...family to feed... To whom your gonna turn for help?Advice?-To whom?
Err...with a family to feed, you would get far more than £65.45 a week! Family allowances, income support, etc., so who do you think you're kidding?

Your mortgage lender issues possession proceedings...do u have money to get a solicitor or would you turn to advice agencies seeking help?
A solicitor isn't going to do you much good anyway if you haven't paid your mortgage, or even the interest. And in any case, if you're that much on your uppers, you'd surely qualify for free legal help.

As i said previously we live in a world where we borrow,we lend and so on...that is the culture.
Why? You have free will - nobody is forcing you into debt - you do that on your own. You're not a lemming are you? Stand on your own two feet and be beholden to no one!

What we need to change is the way that we behave towards that culture and for that we need to work hard with our children so that they can be prepared to deal with finances in a responsible way. It starts at home...simple.
Now there I do agree with you. People don't seem to teach their children the value of money any more, or even the work ethic. They are not doing their children any favours by pandering to them and giving in to their every whim. They grow up thinking the World owes them a living from the cradle to the grave and that is what is wrong with our society today!

chaos63

Daisy Bell you really dont have a clue what you are talking about, free legal help is exactly what you get when you go for free advice at an advice agency.The Government are now intending to cut this as well!
You cannot compare everyone else with your lifestyle and finances as everyone has different circumstances.There are people with learning difficulties that get into debt easily because they do not understand the implications of taking a loan out or having a credit card and have no idea how to manage their money.There are people with mental health problems who impulsively spend money or take out loans as part of their illness.
Please dont tell us that it is easy to live on state benefits because it is not, I speak with first hand experience of this as I used to be a loan parent of 3 young children on benefits - and believe me it was impossible to live on the amount received!
Daisy Bell you are lucky enough to be able to read and write and are able to manage your finances well, many others do not have these abilities.
Perhaps you could become part of "The Big Society" and go to your local CAB or Advice Centre as a volunteer you would soon have your eyes opened to the fact that there are many very poor, very vulnerable people in this country who need help.Please stop making ill informed judgement of people you have never even met!

ricbureau

If you have any spare time join your local CAB for a couple of months and then perhaps you will see a different reality.

If we have a benefit system in place such as Income Support,Housing Benefit,Council Tax benefit and so one is because we all pay our taxes...and if we pay our taxes is because we work...and if we have a place to work(private sector) is because there is a financial support provided by the financial system...business loans,etc...

Once the benefits cuts hit us next April i will see the poor becoming more poor,and more poor...

I never said that borrowing is the way to go...i said that is the society that we all live in...I would like to be in position to by my house without the use of finance...and my car...and my uni fees...and so one. But i can't. My wages will not allow me to do that so i need to borrow.That is life.

cvt1

Daisy Bell

How easy it is for you to sit in your ivory tower and take the moral high ground and belittle and slate others about some things you clearly know VERY little about. You are clearly educated and articulate, yet appear to lack some forethought, or the ability to see anything else beyond your own excellent example.

Whilst I admire your stalwart principles and I agree completely with your priorities and indeed try to instil these into all of my clients, I can't help but see that there is no grey in your world. You have been incredibly lucky to be able to hold onto your job, to be able to live on interest from savings, retire gracefully and not have to face adversity, which would require you to ask for help.

I work for a large charity, which provides face to face advice to those whom you insult and deride because they've been stupid enough and greedy enough to 'get themselves into debt' whether by ill fortune, or their own stupidity.

I work alongside those face to face advisers, funded by FIF and was deeply saddened by the threatened job losses.

Yes, I agree that there are those, who live far beyond their means, using cards and a adopting a cavalier attitude. I also KNOW that lenders will not always follow the mortgage protocol and offer interest only mortgages; it is those lenders, whom we pursue, to ensure that they comply with what is right and just. Countless times, we have been able to prevent repossession because someone has asked for help and we have been able to ensure that they are treated appropriately and within the law. Lenders will all take the easy way out, if they can; whether for a simple long term mortgage, or a secure, high interest loan. Because those who don't ask for help, don't realise things haven't been done properly, in the lenders' eagerness to repossess. They won't consolidate debt, or apply interest only terms because they can get away with it, if people don't ask for help. Unless a District Judge picks up the error and plenty don't, and they don't get help, they're on their own. We provide a dedicated court service so that we are on hand to help them.

I have also represented clients in court, in their 60s, who have become unable to pay their only mortgage, after one of them has suffered a severe health problem and had to stop work because they simply aren't well enough to carry on. They've worked hard and paid their stamp and only have each other.

They had, before the benefit rules changed, to wait 26 weeks, before being able to claim for support for mortgage interest from the DWP, by which time the mortgagee had filed possession paperwork and they lost their home, complete with tiny mortgage and a lifetime of memories; all because one of them developed bowel cancer. How very dare he! I was then left, trying to challenge a local authority, because it too, will avoid its obligations to those entitled to help, if it can.

You have absolutely no idea what goes on beyond your own little world; no idea whatsoever and yet you continue to judge and vilify anyone who has not been able to achieve what you have.

Of course people have to be responsible ultimately, for their own actions and of course there are those who borrow, because others made it easy and they have been weak; but when all is said and done, they need help, when it all goes belly up.

What will happen when the interest rates rise and those who work hard, lose their jobs and are not able to pay their single mortgage? Who will assist those who are not eligible for legal help, or fully certificated work or when the legal aid reforms kick in? Where will all these people go, when they've been evicted, or a credit card company applies for a charging order to their house, forcing its sale and then they are evicted? Regardless of whether they have borrowed beyond their means, or been the victim of misfortune, they need help. Just because you don't and never have borrowed beyond your means, doesn't mean that you have the right to judge those, who DO need help.

Daisy Bell, you are misguided and very lucky to be able to besmirch and insult those who have not been able to match your own perfect standards. I do not borrow, nor live beyond my means; never would and never have, but we are not all the same, heaven forbid that we were! I'd be out of a job!

FIF workers: I am SO glad that you have been given a glimmer of hope. You deserve it; each and every one of you and I feel so much better, knowing that because you aren't going yet, I can carry out my work with your invaluable assistance and hopefully save some more from becoming homeless.

RAS

Daisy_Bell wrote: »

Oh - Heaven forbid that anyone should ever be blamed, never mind actually taking responsibility for their actions in our no-blame culture these days! I'm not surprised that most of the reaction to my Post is as it is. The fact is that nobody is holding a gun to the heads of people to force them to keep on borrowing! OK then, if people lose their jobs, they can go onto benefit, which can be lived on if there is no debt. Mortgage payments can be kept up, interest only, by prior arrangement with lenders. The folk who are against the Government cuts seem to think said Government can just go on borrowing in order to keep giving away money! Living within one's means is not Rocket Science, it is plain common sense and I am tired of all the same old excuses!

I grew up on the mantra "Cut your coat according to your cloth." I have gone hungry and cold sustaining that belief. I may be somewhat behind you in years but may well be in the same place as you financially when I retire.

You invested, other stoozed (borrowing money at 0% and then getting 6% interest). Others invest in stock markets and made a killing and some saw their choices crash.

Posters have spoken about the devastation caused when people ill-health prevents one member of a family working. They find they cannot pay the mortgage, because the the insurance they bought does not cover that particular problem. People need complex help; we have been trying to help a lady whose husband has terminal cancer. She cannot get any help with income, housing, Council tax etc because she owns a house that is occupied for by her step-father who has life interest. The decision is wrong but how and where does someone with no income, trying to cope with the practical and emotional issues round her loved one's demise, find the help and advice so that they can appeal urgently and do not quite literally starve and lose the roof over their heads before his death?

Another lady on here was sold PPI for a loan, covering loss of employment of her husband. Which would have been fine had the bank not already known that he was not working (and rarely did) and the main income was her's, for which no protection was offered. Had the bank treated them correctly when ill-health struck, she would have been OK. It was years of struggle before people on MSE pointed her in the right direction and she was able to recover the cost of that insurance policy. Maybe she should have read the small print but living in an abusive marriage, not signing was not an option.

People need education, so they understand debt, understand what a joint loan means, understand the meaning of financial terms and the value of saving to buy.

I totally agree that our values are c.o.c.k-eyed; but I doubt you understand the devastation that would befall our economy if everyone followed your advice immediately. Is is going to be tough enough engineering a hard landing; we do not need a crash landing.