Hybrid Order on N24 - Cabot - Charging Order Granted :(

ezmok2

Hi all,

Cabot went to court to chase me for approx £2000. They got a CCJ and it was set at £5/ month.
Pretty much straight away I got a letter saying they were applying for redetermination and a Charging Order.
I went to court in January (they didn't turn up) and the N24 says...

1. Judgement payable forthwith.
2. Enforcement of the judgement is stayed until further order while the defendant pays £5 per month, first payment to be made 22 Feb save that the claimant may make one application for a charging order.
3. No order for costs.

Bit more info... All priority debts are pretty much sorted and in arrangements and all other credit cards (who I owe more to that this Cabot (Egg) one) are also getting £5/ month.
I've never missed a payment to Cabot and after showing the judge income/expenditure he knew I couldn't pay more than £5/month. Although the judge was sympathetic he said he had a duty to both sides which is why he said he'd done this sort of order rather than a straight forthwith judgement.

Spoke to the National Debtline (who have been fantastic while sorting all my debts) and they say it's a Hybrid Order.
Although I now know roughly what this is, I can't seem to find any further info as apparently they are quite rare so I don't know what to expect really from here.
If anyone has had one of these or has any experience of these can you let me know what to expect please as I'm struggling to find any further info regarding these strange hybrid orders!

Thanks in advance!

ezmok2

Just a little bump incase there's anyone on the forum that's not seen this yet that can help or give advice

dancingfairy

I don't know what a hybrid order is but it seems clear that the judge is saying yes you owe the money and he would make you pay it straight away (point 1), however as long as you keep making the payments you are paying of 5 pounds per month (point 2) starting on the 22nd Feb. then all the creditors can do is make 1 application for a charging order (point 3).
It's a kind of mish mash approach - ie not in your favour or the other parties but a kind of legalistic compromise which is why he's written it like that with several points and not used a standard format.
I would suggest that you read up on charging orders on the National Debtline website -they have a factsheet on them - bit of a pain but not exactly the end of the world - plus you could of course contest any charging order hearing and might get a higher up judge who could over-rule the first one and say no to it anyway but worst case scenario is you get a charging order which like I said is not the end of the world.
If your creditors apply for a charging order you might need advice on appealing it - if that's what you decide to do.
df

ezmok2

Thanks for the reply

Yes it's a strange one! The National Debtline have sent me the info on COs and also sent me their own operator notes on hybrid orders (a very small paragraph!)
Seeing as nobody seems to know quite what the hybrid order is and nobody appears to have had one (that I can find anyway!) I guess I'll just have to wait to see if the letter from the Land Registry or Cabot drops on the doormat with the next stage in proceedings.

Although I really wanted the judge to say they couldn't go for a CO I have to say he was very sympathetic and did take the time to sit and explain what a charging order was and that it doesn't mean my house will be taken away from me so he did put my mind at rest. Also, from searching on here and talking to National Debtline it's not as bad as I first thought as when that letter with the court date came through there was plenty of tears!

Shall post on the forum when/if I hear anything else and what happens at the court case regarding this hybrid order as it may help someone else one day.

Thanks again for your reply!

DVardysShadow

It looks to me as though the order is actually for the most part self-explanatory. The slight wrinkle [in your favour, as I see it] is that the claimant can make just one application for a charging order - which I imagine the Judge intends to be kept in reserve.

mrsb83_2

DVardysShadow wrote: »

It looks to me as though the order is actually for the most part self-explanatory. The slight wrinkle [in your favour, as I see it] is that the claimant can make just one application for a charging order - which I imagine the Judge intends to be kept in reserve.

I agree with this. No need to get caught up in what the order is called as those terms often have no legal meaning anyway.

The terms of the order are clear and are fair to both parties IMO.

Hippocampus

Personally, had it been me turning up in court and Cabot not bothering, I'd have been asking for it to be struck out. Cheeky monkeys.

ezmok2

Yes I was annoyed they didn't bother to show up either, the cheeky monkeys!

And I now know that the hybrid order obviously means sod all since it's obviously got the 'forthwith' word on the N24 so that's their green light and I got the application for the final charging order in the post today from them so next step is the fight to try and stop it.

So... How to try and stop it???

1. I've been paying the £5/month (that was also stated on the N24) without missing any but I'm taking it that since 'forthwith' has also been mentioned that I can't use that defence about not missing any payments. Although I will be pointing it out.

2. The house is in my name only so can't do anything on that front either and have enough equity in the house so can't use that as a defence.

3. I have other creditors and they have only mentioned RBS on the schedule of creditors (my other CCJ) stating 'amount unknown'. I owe more to RBS than this Egg one.
Also, in addition to the one they have mentioned there are another 2, both of with I owe more to that the Egg one.
Further to this I also owe on another Egg account (had both green and Blue egg cards) and they don't seem to know anything about it even though it's the same company.

So I'm taking it I can give this option a try saying it's unfair to the other creditors?

4. Situation has very slightly improved but can't really offer them much more than the £5/month as my priority debts still are a priority!!

Arghhhh! Where's that money tree we're all looking for?

Anyway... if anybody has experience of fighting and winning a final charging order all advice would be greatly received.
And I know everyone says it's rare for them to make you sell your house even if the order is granted but I'm still scared to death

Thank you in advance

Sparklyfairy

Hi there, In case you don't get much help here, I'd pop over to the CAG (Consumer Advice) forums & ask there as they seem to be more aware of setting up a defence for Charging Orders & help loads of people out. Good luck & I hope it all works out in your favour...your hybrid order may be a keen part of your defence imo & you may even get the same judge (if it's at the same court) so it could very well work out in your favour...just keep making that monthly payment! Hth, SF

ezmok2

Have been googling and more seems to come up on that site than this one about charging orders so I think I will join and see if they can help and shall also ring the National Debt Line tomorrow I think.
It is the same court so fingers crossed that if it is the same judge he's in a good mood!
Shall post on here anyway when I've been to court in April and say which way it went and what I did.
Fingers crossed and thank you

ezmok2

Eeeee by gum...

Been this afternoon to the court for the Final Charging Order application and the judge granted it.

I used the 'other creditor' argument to be told "They should have got in first then."
Also used the debt in relation to equity argument and he wasn't interested.

I tried. I failed. The judge said there wasn't anything legally he could do to stop it and to be honest he'd already decided before I got there as he had the paperwork in front of him ready to fill out!

But... he did set the repayments at £5 per month and as long as I pay that they can't ever make me sell my house.
I asked if I had to treat all creditors equally, eg when I can afford it and start paying the others more, do I also have to pay this one the same? He said that I didn't. That I could win the lottery, pay all the others off and can still pay these £5 per month. He also said "They don't treat you fairly (as you've just seen) so why should you have to treat them fairly."
He was a lovely man really, just presume his hands are tied in these cases.

So all in all, maybe the charging order was a good thing as it means they can't pester me anymore for money I haven't got!

Ah well, it's over now and they have to leave me alone but I still think that unsecured debts should never be allowed to become secured debts... totally wrong.