My Dog Won't Calm Down

Humphrey10

blue_monkey wrote: »

Put warm water in it.

We did, and yes that did help, without water it was almost certain that she wouldn't touch it, with water it was just quite likely she wouldn't touch it! If we mixed it with meat she would eat the meat, but would leave as much of the dried food as possible. I put gravy on it a few times, thinking it might soak in to the food a bit, even that didn't always work.

For quite a long time we thought that she just wasn't interested in food, that it was normal for her to pick at her food, then we ran out of Autarky once and gave her Bakers complete which was all the local shop had, she ate it all right away. We got some more Autarky when the Bakers ran out, and she went back to being reluctant to eat.

We thought it's not really fair to make an old dog eat horrible food (I tried a piece of the Autarky, I don't blame her for not eating it now!), and as her health doesn't seem to be adversely affected by the Bakers complete (we give her half meat and half bakers complete now, she likes the meat even more but on 100% meat her poos are horrible!) and she hasn't put on weight, we might as well feed her food she likes.

Mrs_PI

Thanks for your replies

I didn't know Bakers might be the cause, and feel awful thinking its rubbish food, but he likes it

I will look at this Burns one now

sarabe

Mrs_PI wrote: »

Thanks for your replies

I didn't know Bakers might be the cause, and feel awful thinking its rubbish food, but he likes it

I will look at this Burns one now

If you gave your children a choice between a nice healthy fish pie and a big mac, what would they choose?

How much exercise is your dog getting?

blue_monkey_2

sarabe wrote: »

If you gave your children a choice between a nice healthy fish pie and a big mac, what would they choose?

How much exercise is your dog getting?

Unless you came on here you would not know that Bakers is bad for your dog to be fair. I didn't know until a friend told me so I would probably have fed the dogs it if they like it. It is advertised and it is sold in every single pet store I go into. I have not bought it because I know it has bad ingrediants in it, the OP clearly did not know.

It is commonly known that burgers are bad for humans if eaten every day as we are told day in day out by the TV, newspaper, magazines and other people - you don't see pet foods being given the same sort of attention regarding ingrediants. So if no-one says anything, how are the public supposed to know?

Mrs_PI

He gets 5 walks a day 4 on lead and the main 1 off lead for about 2 hours

Brian15

It looks ok to me and my deerhound now eight loves this in preference to many varieties of so called "Premium" foods.


Ingredients
Cereals (minimum 4% rice in the green and orange kernels), Meat and animal derivatives (Minimum 4% fresh meat in the moist meaty chunks, minimum 4% beef in the moist meaty chunks), Vegetable protein extracts, Oils and fats, Various sugars, Derivatives of vegetable origin (0.5% beet pulp in the brown and red kernels), Minerals, Vegetables (minimum 4% vegetables in the green and orange kernels). With antioxidants, coloured with and preserved with EC additives. Typical Analysis
Protein25.0%Fat8.0%Ash7.0%Fibre3.0%Calcium1.1%Linoleic acidmin 0.1%Linolenic acidmin 2.0%Vitamin A12,000 IU/kgVitamin D3800 IU/kgVitamin E (α-tocopherol)60mg/kgCopper (Copper Sulphate)12mg/kg


Vitamin levels are guaranteed until the best before date shown on product packaging.
Feeding GuideType of DogGrams per DayToy - 1-5kg30-100gTypical Breeds: Chihuahua, King Charles Spaniel, Pekingese, West Highland White Terrier & others weighing from 1kg to 5kg.
Small - 5-10kg100-165gTypical Breeds: Fox Terrier, Dachshund, Whippet & others weighing from 5kg to 10kg.
Medium - 10-25kg165-330gTypical Breeds: Cocker Spaniel, Beagle & others weighing from 10kg to 25kg.
Large - 25-45kg330-510gTypical Breeds: Labrador, Pointer, Setter & others weighing from 25kg to 45kg.
Giant - 45-70kg510-715gTypical Breeds: Great Dane, Borzoi, Bloodhound & others weighing from 45kg to 70kg.



One half pint mug holds approximately 100g of Bakers Complete.
These amounts are averages based on moderately active dogs at normal environmental temperatures. Individual needs vary and feeding should be adjusted as required to maintain your dog at a lean, healthy body weight. When changing to this food, start mixing it with your dog's current food and gradually increase the proportion over a period of 7 - 10 days.
Fresh, clean water should always be available.


Store in a dry, clean place at ambient temperature.

Fire_Fox

Brian15 wrote: »

It looks ok to me and my deerhound now eight loves this in preference to many varieties of so called "Premium" foods.

Ingredients
Cereals (minimum 4% rice in the green and orange kernels), Meat and animal derivatives (Minimum 4% fresh meat in the moist meaty chunks, minimum 4% beef in the moist meaty chunks), Vegetable protein extracts, Oils and fats, Various sugars, Derivatives of vegetable origin (0.5% beet pulp in the brown and red kernels), Minerals, Vegetables (minimum 4% vegetables in the green and orange kernels). With antioxidants, coloured with and preserved with EC additives.

Analysis
Protein25.0%Fat8.0%Ash7.0%Fibre3.0%Calcium1.1%Lino leic acidmin 0.1%Linolenic acidmin 2.0%Vitamin A12,000 IU/kgVitamin D3800 IU/kgVitamin E (α-tocopherol)60mg/kgCopper (Copper Sulphate)12mg/kg

Have emboldened the ingredients that would concern me. Canines are carnivores, meat or another form of animal protein should be the first/ highest ingredient. Vegetable protein is less bioavailable, less usable to the dog so more will end up coming straight back out the other end.

High carbohydrate diets are a risk factor for weight gain and dental caries. Depending which cereals have been used (usually maize and wheat) the food may be high glycaemic index which, alongside the sugars, will have the dog's blood sugar peaking and troughing - a risk factor for diabetes and behavioural problems. It's also worth noting that fat and protein are associated with satiety, high carb foods can promote hunger which may cause your dog to be extra enthusiastic at meal times. Clever Purina!

Then there are the green, orange, red and brown coloured pieces, artificial additives that are there to persuade the human that the food contains healthy vegetables. In fact vegetables are lower in the list than minerals (=ash), so presumably less than 7%. The sugars help persuade a carnivore to eat meat flavoured corn flakes, and research shows sugary foods taste better when you are hungry ...

On the MSE side, branded high cereal/ grain foods generally represent poor value for money: the carbs used are waste products from the human food industry so very profitable for Nestle-Purina. Feed rates/ portion sizes of high cereal dog and cat foods are often high, as so much ends up coming straight out the other end. Switching my cat from James Wellbeloved to Orijen meant an overnight change from three stinky poops a day to one smell free one. Orijen is expensive for a high meat food but I picked some up on offer. :money:

Finally there is the ethical aspect, personally I wouldn't trust Nestle (of chocolate bars and baby milk fame) to design a genuinely healthy balanced diet for my dog since they are incapable of considering the health of Western children and African babies when peddling their toxic wares. But that is my personal prejudice, you may feel otherwise.

Brian15 wrote: »

Feeding Guide Type of Dog Grams per Day
Toy - 1-5kg 30-100gTypical Breeds: Chihuahua, King Charles Spaniel, Pekingese, West Highland White Terrier & others weighing from 1kg to 5kg.
Small - 5-10kg 100-165g Typical Breeds: Fox Terrier, Dachshund, Whippet & others weighing from 5kg to 10kg.
Medium - 10-25kg 165-330g Typical Breeds: Cocker Spaniel, Beagle & others weighing from 10kg to 25kg.
Large - 25-45kg 330-510g Typical Breeds: Labrador, Pointer, Setter & others weighing from 25kg to 45kg.
Giant - 45-70kg 510-715g Typical Breeds: Great Dane, Borzoi, Bloodhound & others weighing from 45kg to 70kg.

Comparative feed rate for Orijen dog food (80% meat, 20% veg), which doesn't contain cheap cereal fillers.
"Manufacturer's feeding recommendation per dog in g/day:
Dog's Weight Active Dog Less Active Dog
1 - 5 kg 75 - 100 40 - 75
5 - 10 kg 100 - 150 75 - 115
10 - 20 kg 150 - 275 115 - 200
20 - 35 kg 275 - 375 200 - 275
35 - 50 kg 375 - 500 275 - 400
50 - 65 kg 500 - 575 400 - 525

As each dog is different, feeding requirements vary with size, environment, age and activity. Monitor your dog's weight and adjust rations as needed. Feed twice daily and always keep fresh, clean water available."
http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dry_dog_food/orijen/44952

Humphrey10 wrote: »

No-one's told my dog that. She is 14 though so maybe without the Bakers (complete not senior) she'd been even less active!

OP we used to feed our dog Autarky, it's all natural ingredients etc and much cheaper than the other dog foods we looked at, she was fine on it eg good coat etc (though shes still OK with the Bakers too). They do a senior version too.

We only changed to Bakers complete because she appears to like it better, the Autarky she would sometimes go a day without eating it.

Links between food/ lifestyle and health can be proven but not affect every human/ dog. Most MSEers will accept regular use of tobacco causes cancer, but not every smoker gets cancer. Ditto food additives and behavioural problems in canines/ children.

I would note that high protein foods have also been linked with behavioural problems in dogs, so a dog with behavioural issues might be give a food which contains no artificial additives, animal protein as the first ingredient (derivatives and meat meal are fine), no vegetable protein, plus low GI carbs such as whole oats, barley, sweet potato and vegetables.

dazb75

I love to read the "but my dog loves Bakers" comments.

Bakers is the MacDonalds of the dog world. Chiildren love MacDonalds, but would you let them eat it every day?

Beckyy

Bakers complete to a dog is like giving McDonalds and sweeties to a child at every meal. They'll probably love it, but it's terrible for them.

You don't have to spend a fortune on food, but there are many, many better brands than Bakers out there which I think may help.

You could try doing some mental stimulation, like clicker training, with him - it will tire him out mentaly and give him an extra bit of stimulation. You could also try giving him a marrow bone from the butcher, or a stuffed Kong toy to keep him occupied when you need a little peace.

A little water on dry food will bring out the flavours and make it more appetising, but try to just sprinkle it on and not to soften it, as solid kibbles are better for dog's teeth and anal glands.

Fire_Fox

blue_monkey wrote: »

Unless you came on here you would not know that Bakers is bad for your dog to be fair. I didn't know until a friend told me so I would probably have fed the dogs it if they like it. It is advertised and it is sold in every single pet store I go into. I have not bought it because I know it has bad ingrediants in it, the OP clearly did not know.

It is commonly known that burgers are bad for humans if eaten every day as we are told day in day out by the TV, newspaper, magazines and other people - you don't see pet foods being given the same sort of attention regarding ingrediants. So if no-one says anything, how are the public supposed to know?

The ingredients are on every pack, there have been articles in many major newspapers and there is information all over the internet not just on MSE. Also use your common sense: we all know that dogs need exercise just like humans, that processed food is unhealthy, that the tastiest foods are rarely the healthiest ones and that advertisements cannot be trusted. Having said that I am as guilty as the next (wo)man as my first rescue cats were fed supermarket own brand dry food - and I had already worked in two hospitals! :rotfl:

Beckyy wrote: »

A little water on dry food will bring out the flavours and make it more appetising, but try to just sprinkle it on and not to soften it, as solid kibbles are better for dog's teeth and anal glands.

There is no evidence dry food is good for dogs teeth, that is an old wives tale. In fact most dry dog and cat foods are high in cereals which contribute to dental decay - ask your dentist, starchy carbohydrates feed plaque bacteria not just sugars. The more progressive vets recommend raw meaty bones (poultry necks, chicken wings and carcasses) to keep teeth clean.