ESA - another form already!

melbury

I just can't believe it. My OH received another ESA form to fill in today and it is only four months since he attended the medical at ATOS and was awarded ESA. So it looks like we have to start the whole process again from scratch.

Does anybody know - do you basically just copy out what you put on the original application form, or can you refer to points made on the original application form - such as "no change from point 1 on the original application." I would just like to know the best way of going about this. Do they keep the original forms for reference?

I am totally aghast - I thought they were supposed to be putting more of their resources into checking long time sickness benefit claimants, not harassing new claimants who they have seen very recently.

Life is totally unfair.:mad:

2009timeforchange

I assume you are talking about the ESA50?
You need to complete it in full with as much information as possible. The form is used to decide if another medical examination with ATOS is needed. Chances are they will want to see him again so you need to give as much info as you can.

dreamylittledream

Given there is an extremely good chance that the DM considering the new ESA50 and deciding on whether the claim should be referred again to ATOS will not have the original ESA50 or the previous medical reports and will be considering the current health of the customer, not the previous history; I'd strongly suggest filling out the form again in as much detail as possible.

Circumstances may have changed since the last medical - sudden recovery or improvement for example. Thats what the form is there to asertain - its nothing sinister.

dreamylittledream

goffo wrote: »

I know that this subject has been 'done to death' on this and on other sites.
But, there is something in my mind that is bugging me.

As the OP has said, I too am to have another ESA50 (6 months since I won an appeal).

Why do you suggest filling it out with 'as much information as possible'?

I did this the last time but it made no difference at all - I still failed. Whether they actually look at the form is another thing, but we & the powers that be, know that the DM's are most likely to side with the ATOS report no matter what you put on it.
Very few DM's will ever override what the ATOS assessor says.

In which case, what is the point in spending time filling out something that is of no use to anyone?
I know you have to return the ESA50 within a time limit, but there is no definition as to what you should actually put in it.

Surely either referring to the past ESA50 is good enough if nothing has changed or indeed put nothing at all in it and make the assessor review your abilities with no preconceived ideas of what you say is wrong with you. At least that way he/she will have to carry out a thorough review and not just on those descriptors that you have identified on the ESA50.

Anyhow that is what I intend to do - at least they will have to work for their money!

The ESA50 is there to decide whether an ATOS referral is appropriate - at this point there is no (new) ATOS report to refer to.

So if you don't put any detail on it then surely they would be within their rights to assume there is little wrong with you and refer you straight away for another medical.

Its your chance to state your case as to why you are too incapcitated to work - the DM then decides whether this is sufficent in its own right or whether they would like a medical opinion - hence the WCA referrals.

Up to you what you do but nose cut off and face spring to mind.

dane-katie

I passed my medical first time and then 6 months later i got another ESA50 form, filled it in sent it back, was told i passed without a new medical and would last 3 months, well in March/ April time it will have been 12 months, so i will expect another ESA50 form then.
I wrote as much detail as i could, so the DM fully understood about my illness and how it affects me since they have never met or spoken to me before.
Put as much detail as you can as it all helps.

seven-day-weekend

Fill it in as fully as possible. If you have kept a copy of the old form, copy that one, adding further information if necessary.

My husband always keeps a copy of his form. He has had three IB50s to fill in since late 2004. He uses the information from the previous one as a base for the new one and if there are any changes to his condition he adds that too. He has been called for medicals twice. Each time he has been found unfit for work.

This is for IB, not ESA, but I'm sure the form-filling is the same.

celinepatricia

goffo wrote: »

Gone from failure with 0 points - as per ATOS and DWP agreed to Work Group with 15 points, and this morning I get a letter and giro telling me that 'after looking at the case again', I am now in the Support Group.
It does seem that the DWP cannot use the evidence properly.
So in my humble opinion I would sooner deal with the Tribunal Service than the DWP.
.

Same thing happened with my husband.

melbury

goffo wrote: »

I have no argument with you. The only body that can be trusted to review and use the evidence properly is the Tribunal Service.

It has taken the DWP 12 months and two appeals for them to accept that I was right and they were wrong.
Gone from failure with 0 points - as per ATOS and DWP agreed to Work Group with 15 points, and this morning I get a letter and giro telling me that 'after looking at the case again', I am now in the Support Group.
It does seem that the DWP cannot use the evidence properly.
So in my humble opinion I would sooner deal with the Tribunal Service than the DWP.
I know I will fail with 0 points again so I am preparing my new case now ready for the next appeal.

Never trust people or organisations that have let you down in the past. Never believe what governemnt departments say.

My husband was put in the work group, but in all honesty if anything he is worse than when he had his medical. Has had another operation since then and is in pain virtually all the time.

I accept we will have to go ahead and fill in the second ESA50 form, but is there any way of appealing against being put in the work group rather than the support group - on the assumption of course that he passes the medical assessment this time.

eskimo26

melbury wrote: »

My husband was put in the work group, but in all honesty if anything he is worse than when he had his medical. Has had another operation since then and is in pain virtually all the time.

I accept we will have to go ahead and fill in the second ESA50 form, but is there any way of appealing against being put in the work group rather than the support group - on the assumption of course that he passes the medical assessment this time.

Did you use the descriptors when you did your esa50 and get it checked out by people in the know like CAB for example?

There is a well hidden 'loophole' that might do the job. There is a pre-board check the purpose of which is to determine if the claimant needs the ATOS medical.

If you can prove your husband qualifies for just one of the descriptors in the limited capacity for work group then it says in there own literature:

"If one descriptor applies to the claimant, they will be placed in the support group and will receive an additional component with their ESA. They will not have to attend work focused interviews or a work focused health related assessment."

Basically Atos asks you not to send in medical evidence with your esa50 to circumvent this but if he fits one of the descriptors get as much evidence as feasible to back it up including your esa50 (sorry P:) and send in a copy of everything to the department dealing with your claim and another to ATOS (recorded delivery).

Provide a covering letter reminding them of the little clause I mentioned above, tell them which descriptor he fits and the relevance of your evidence to said descriptor. It won't hurt to write a letter to your local MP to tell them what your doing. (make sure atos and the dwp know your doing this.)

No promises and it may be a lot of work but this should in theory get him put straight into the support group if your evidence is good enough, that means no atos medical too. I've seen maybe two posts total in the various forums were people have seen this 'loophole' and taken advantage with success.

Also if your husband is to disabled to go to a work focused lecture once a month (that's what happens in the work group right?) perhaps he should be on DLA?

Regardless good luck.

btw you know you can request a home visit or taxi right? You can also request atos record the medical for you, they have an agreement with the dwp to do that atm, though this is only temporary so they might have called time on that already.

melbury

eskimo26 wrote: »

Did you use the descriptors when you did your esa50 and get it checked out by people in the know like CAB for example?

There is a well hidden 'loophole' that might do the job. There is a pre-board check the purpose of which is to determine if the claimant needs the ATOS medical.

If you can prove your husband qualifies for just one of the descriptors in the limited capacity for work group then it says in there own literature:

"If one descriptor applies to the claimant, they will be placed in the support group and will receive an additional component with their ESA. They will not have to attend work focused interviews or a work focused health related assessment."

Basically Atos asks you not to send in medical evidence with your esa50 to circumvent this but if he fits one of the descriptors get as much evidence as feasible to back it up including your esa50 (sorry P:) and send in a copy of everything to the department dealing with your claim and another to ATOS (recorded delivery).

Provide a covering letter reminding them of the little clause I mentioned above, tell them which descriptor he fits and the relevance of your evidence to said descriptor. It won't hurt to write a letter to your local MP to tell them what your doing. (make sure atos and the dwp know your doing this.)

No promises and it may be a lot of work but this should in theory get him put straight into the support group if your evidence is good enough, that means no atos medical too. I've seen maybe two posts total in the various forums were people have seen this 'loophole' and taken advantage with success.

Also if your husband is to disabled to go to a work focused lecture once a month (that's what happens in the work group right?) perhaps he should be on DLA?

Regardless good luck.

btw you know you can request a home visit or taxi right? You can also request atos record the medical for you, they have an agreement with the dwp to do that atm, though this is only temporary so they might have called time on that already.

Thank you, so I should write a covering letter detailing that he meets the requirement for 15 points and is unlikely to get better and then quote the paragraph you have posted??

Have I understood this correctly?

eskimo26

melbury wrote: »

Thank you, so I should write a covering letter detailing that he meets the requirement for 15 points and is unlikely to get better and then quote the paragraph you have posted??

Have I understood this correctly?

Aha i found the topic again. Here is the link and the relevant post.

http://www.fibromyalgia-associationuk.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31010

by Melanie » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:13 pm
Hi,

I managed to get into the support group without a medical by calling their bluff on the law. If you meet one of the descriptors for those who should go into the support group, you shouldn't have to attend a medical, but because ATOS say not to send evidence with the ESA50, it is nearly impossible for them to make that decision without calling you for a medical first. I sent all my evidence to ATOS special delivery with a letter stating that in accordance with the law I should not have to attend a medical and I made reference to where they could find the supporting evidence. I also sent a similar letter to the Jobcentre recorded delivery saying the same thing. The Jobcentre then spoke to ATOS and they sent me a letter confirming what I had sent in etc. I got the letter today saying that I have been placed in the support group again, no medical! I'm very pleased.

ESA down, DLA renewal to go...!

I think that sums it up, what you are looking to prove is based on the support group descriptors. He only has to qualify for one of the descriptors listed not score 15 points (the points based assessment is for the work based group only).

Here are the descriptors. I have sent my evidence in and have told them i qualify not for one but three descriptors, fingers crossed. But they keep it all very hush hush i've only literally seen two posts about it in all my researching!

http://www.newcastle.gov.uk/core.nsf/a/wr_esadescriptorslcwra

The summary page explains both tests and you can navigate to all the info from there.

http://www.newcastle.gov.uk/core.nsf/a/wr_esadescriptorshome

Also bear in mind its all change come march like it says on the link. Best of luck hope its not a wasted effort and keep us posted on updates or any more questions.