Being Issued Notice To Quit

PrincessPlaty

Not the usual question on here and not sure if anyone is going to be able to answer my questions but i thought it would be worth an ask.

Currently in a womens refuge been here since October fleeing DV.

Homeless application was made to the council on January 4th. There was a delay in applying due to all names being changed and restrictions being applied to all departments including NHS, DWP and IR. And also the council initially refusing to accept my application because I wasn't living in the area.

As yet the council have not made a decision on my homeless application they are awaiting information back from the police (incident numbers were provided at the homeless interview) they have received supporting letters from GP, Social services (both in the area I am and the area that I have come from) and Womens Aid.

The refuge have this afternoon mentioned that they want to issue me with a notice to quit with 4 weeks notice starting this Friday this is due to the fact that other than needing somewhere to live I have no other support needs and I am basically just taking up a room which could be used by someone who has support needs.

I do understand that they are doing this to try and force the council into doing something quicker.

Does anyone know what the council will do? Am I going to have to go through the notice to quit period and then let it go to a court for an eviction order like you would do with a private tenancy or is it different because its a women's refuge and a license agreement not a tenancy?

Shelter are involved but the officer dealing with the case is off until Wednesday so if anyone could shed any light on it, I would appreciate it!

silvercar

I don't know about the refuge's powers to evict you, but once you present yourself to the council as homeless, they would normally provide emergency housing while they assess your homelessness application. As your case is already being assessed I would guess that it would just speed it up. In the meantime emergency housing could be a B&B or a council homeless unit.

There was a poster on here called mumoftwins who was in a similar situation and was housed in a council emergency housing unit that was a studio flat with shared facilities.

Wee_Willy_Harris

Whilst the Council are assessing your homeless application they have a DUTY to provide you with temporary accommodation as long as they have reason to believe that you are homeless and in priority need (DV covers both). If the refuge evict (and yes, it will almost certainly be a license) then the Council will have to provide an alternative.

On a separate point, if you are fleeing DV, you can approach ANY local authority for assistance, the usual "local connection" rules don't apply. The council SHOULD have accepted your application when you first approached. It might be worth getting Shelter to look into that for you.

PrincessPlaty

I have had a brief look at mumoftwins thread its quite a long one isnt it! :eek: some bedtime reading there for me i think!

From what I have read on the Shelter website

The temporary accommodation has to be suitable for you. The council has to take a number of things into account when it decides whether the accommodation is suitable:
how much rent you can afford to pay
the condition of the accommodation
whether it is the right size for your household
where the accommodation is
any health needs you may have
social factors (such as whether you need to be close to support services, family or special schools).

I am in one room with my 3 children sharing all other rooms.
I am literally in the middle of nowhere the closest town in 30 miles away :eek:
My children are currently out of school and I am homeschooling them because the first language is not English in this area.

There have been lots of issues since i have been here including my children being attacked by other residents children resulting in my 5 year old having a black eye. The house is disgustingly filthy it is that bad that my 1 year old cannot crawl on the floor.
I have it in writing from social services to say that they are not satisfied my children are safe living here, and they have requested that the refuge move me to another refuge closer to the nearest town as soon as a space becomes available. Obviously with them now saying about issuing the notice to quit because I no longer have any support needs I can't see how they can then move me to another refuge because surely I would then have the same issue with them or even the issue that they would not accept me due to the fact that I have no support needs other than the fact that i need rehousing.

I bought up with Shelter the fact that they wouldn't initially accept my homeless application but they were more interested in getting a decision from the council first before they did anything about it.

The refuge have spoke to the homeless officer previously about temporary accommodation to get me into the area so that the children could go to school and they basically got told i would be better off staying where i was! From what the homeless officer me was that they have a large amount of ex offenders that apply to them and that is what their temp accommodation is full of :eek:

I didn't think they were allowed to move me from temp acc to temp acc neither? And the refuge is classed as temp acc! Im not sure if this is before or after a decision has been made on my homeless application?

I guess my main worry is that the refuge are going to issue me with the notice to quit and then the council are going to tell me to wait for them to get a court order to evict me before they will help

It is definatly a license agreement that I have.

Wee_Willy_Harris

If it's a license agreement, they don't need a court order.

The Council aren't just allowed to move you from temp to temp, they would HAVE to if the current becomes unavailable to you before a decision is made on your application. The reason they are putting you off at the moment is because you may have to be placed, initially, into cheap, council funded B+B which is exactly as bad as it sounds. Claims that it is full of ex-offenders may well be true, which is why they feel that you are better off in refuge. Social Services will still be unhappy, but you can only have what is available. Once they have made a decision on your homeless application, that DUTY to provide temp becomes a POWER to provide temp, which means they have the choice (though good practice is to provide).

I'm surprised that the refuge are claiming you have no support needs as fleeing DV is, in itself, a support need and it would be unusual, to say the least, for refuge to evict under these circumstances. Perhaps you should have a word with the local Womens support network?

PrincessPlaty

In the License agreement it states:

Ending the License Agreement

The Associations Rights
*** may terminate this agreement by giving you the appropriate written notice at any time. A written notice given to you by *** is given on behalf of the housing association and is effective to terminate this agreement. The notice will state the reason why you are being asked to leave and will also ask if you wish to appeal and will give details of the appeals procedure.

The association can end this license agreement if:

a. you have not paid the weekly charges which are due

b. you have been violent or have threatened violence to another resident, neighbour, member of staff or visitor to the house

c. you have broken any conditions of the agreement

d. you have damaged the property, the fixtures and/or fittings of the property which are referred to in this agreement

e. you have been a serious nuisance to other residents, neighbours, staff or visitors or have harassed those people because of their colour, sex, race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, age, disability or other reasons

f. suitable alternative accommodation has been offered and you no longer require the services of the project

g. you no longer benefit from the support offered by the project or you are unwilling to co-operate and receive support.

Steps to end the License Agreement

The Association hopes that your time at the project will be successful and that no action will need to be taken against you which will result in your license agreement being ended.

If you do break the rules set out in this agreement *** will take the following action:

a. We will give you a verbal warning

b. We may follow this with a written warning

c. In the event of further incidents we will give you a second written warning

d. If the situation does not improve we will serve you with a 4 week Notice to Quit the project. In this event we will advise you of your right to appeal and to seek further advice.

e. If you refuse to leave at the end of your notice period we will apply to the court to gain possession of the premises.

You have the right to appeal against any warning issued by a refuge worker or member of *** or against a notice requiring you to leave.








Now from reading that, to me it seems that it is a similar procedure to what a private landlord would take which is what worries me that the council may advise me to stay until they have the court order :eek:

Wee_Willy_Harris

Appeal. It will buy some time if nothing else.

PrincessPlaty

Wee_Willy_Harris wrote: »

If it's a license agreement, they don't need a court order.

I have copied out the parts of my license agreement that say that they will take it to court to get an order above.

Wee_Willy_Harris wrote: »

The Council aren't just allowed to move you from temp to temp, they would HAVE to if the current becomes unavailable to you before a decision is made on your application. The reason they are putting you off at the moment is because you may have to be placed, initially, into cheap, council funded B+B which is exactly as bad as it sounds. Claims that it is full of ex-offenders may well be true, which is why they feel that you are better off in refuge. Social Services will still be unhappy, but you can only have what is available. Once they have made a decision on your homeless application, that DUTY to provide temp becomes a POWER to provide temp, which means they have the choice (though good practice is to provide).

So once they have made a decision then what happens next?
Shelter actually phoned the homeless officer last week and spoke to her and she said that she wasn't willing to say either way what her decision would be, but she was awaiting more information from the police. The woman from Shelter said it is looking good for me though that they are taking their time about it and haven't just said no.
The one thing that does concern me is that the woman from Shelter told me that there is no time limit on the council having to make a decision whereas im pretty sure they had a limit of 33 (working?) days to make a decision, and im pretty sure that I read that on the Shelter website too.

Wee_Willy_Harris wrote: »

I'm surprised that the refuge are claiming you have no support needs as fleeing DV is, in itself, a support need and it would be unusual, to say the least, for refuge to evict under these circumstances. Perhaps you should have a word with the local Womens support network?

Tbh I think the refuge are only doing it to try and hurry the council along because they are dragging their feet so much. I initially attempted to make my homeless application at the beginning of November but because of them refusing to let me to begin with it obviously took a lot longer. I think they are pretty sick of me complaining about the state of the place and the incidents that are happening here also. Which in all fairness im sick of complaining too, but what more can I do when my children all aged 5 and under are listening to other women saying they are going to take an overdose? Being scared to leave the room incase they get attacked again? Waking up having nightmares every night? I feel bad complaining all the time and have even had one of the workers refuse point blank to work with me because I apparently have an answer for everything when i said i wasn't happy that my 5 year old daughter was scared to leave the room and they weren't willing to try and do anything about it despite the fact that another woman that was here was an alcoholic and her behaviour was odd at the best of times!

Hump

The Council should not unduly delay in making their decision, 33 days relates to an ancient government performance indiicator that hasn't been monitored for years (though it's passed into homeless folklore and remains a local indicator in some places). Sadly refuges have become businesses and they receive the bulk of their funding through 'Supporting People' funding now rolled up into area based formula grant - meaning that the funding body can put 'support need' requirements in their contracts with the refuge. However it sounds as if 'they' (the refuge) are wanting to get rid of you. The better refuges have a 'no evictions' policy and rather try a 'managed move on' to an alternative provider (aka passing the buck).

Fortunately the council's responsibility under s188 to provide you temporary accommodation pending a decision cannot be brought to an end by the refuge 'evicting' you. And even if they do try (the Council that is) - and they sometimes try based solely upon the fact the legislation does not specifically say that they can't - they still have to issue a decision on your application. The good news is - if there is any in this situation - that given your previous posts last year it would be extremely unlikely that the Council will do anything other than accept a main duty toward you. Accommodation provided under the 'main homeless' duty (s193(2) etc) whether temporary or ultimately more permanent must be reasonable with the Council being responsible - if you are unhappy with the accommodation they have arranged for you or are offering you then it's worth challenging the Council directly (rather than the refuge).

Wee_Willy_Harris

PrincessPlaty wrote: »

I have copied out the parts of my license agreement that say that they will take it to court to get an order above.

They don't HAVE to, but clearly they feel that they should.

PrincessPlaty wrote: »

So once they have made a decision then what happens next?
Shelter actually phoned the homeless officer last week and spoke to her and she said that she wasn't willing to say either way what her decision would be, but she was awaiting more information from the police. The woman from Shelter said it is looking good for me though that they are taking their time about it and haven't just said no.
The one thing that does concern me is that the woman from Shelter told me that there is no time limit on the council having to make a decision whereas im pretty sure they had a limit of 33 (working?) days to make a decision, and im pretty sure that I read that on the Shelter website too.

If it's a positive decision, they will have accepted a duty to house. This means that they must offer you either a private rent that you agree with or one of their own properties. It is usually one offer of accommodation that brings that duty to an end and it may not necessarily be in your areas of choice. Expect low demand/high turnover (ie crap) housing. You may appeal any offer but, if you refuse the offer and lose the appeal, they will have discharged their duty.

If it's a negative decision you will be given "reasonable" notice that their provision of accommodation will cease. You may appeal a negative decision.

33 working days is just a guidline. I have known some decisions to take over a year, but that is unusual to say the least.

PrincessPlaty wrote: »

Tbh I think the refuge are only doing it to try and hurry the council along because they are dragging their feet so much.

Depending on where you are (Manchester?), the decision may only be the first step in a lengthy process of re-housing. Manchester City Council accepted almost 200 applicants between July and Sept last year, all of whom expect re-housing as you do. There will also be others in urgent need of re-housing. At the end of the day, demand outstrips supply.

PrincessPlaty

Thanks Hump.

I read (im not sure where it was now) that the council could provide me with a private tenancy as temp accommodation. The homeless officer keeps sending me print outs from right move for properties through letting agents but they are expecting me to arrange it. Im sure I read that if i do this then this is then classed as me adaquatley housing myself and the children and then they would no longer have a duty to me is that correct?

Not that it seems to be an option at the moment as due to me changing my name whilst being in the refuge on paper I don't exist so therefore wouldn't be able to pass credit checks etc unless my old name was given which would then link me to this area which then puts me and the children at risk again