Listed Building & VAT back

muckybutt

leveller2911 wrote: »

I assume that would be classed as maintenance and VAT payable as your replacing an existing system..Just reading my VAT book it says: new system is classed as an alteration (vat free) "when a boiler is replaced as a direct consequence of deciding to extend the plumbing system"

BUT: Classed as maintenance (vat payable) "when the decision to extend the plumbing system is made following the need to replace the boiler"...............so your guess is as good as mine.....lol

Extending plumbing system is classed as "alteration" and vat exempt replace a boiler and I think it would be VAT payable..

Basically anything you replace or repair is VAT payable anything you do from new that wasn't there before is classed as "alterations" and VAT exempt ..But this is a basic rule...

Cheers for that .....bu g ger !

leveller2911

muckybutt wrote: »

Cheers for that .....bu g ger !

But contact your heating engineer as there may be a different rule for fitting energy efficiant boilers, bit like draught proofing which can be reduced or zero rated vat..

magicden

Hi just wondering if anyone has any updates on this subject. I recently restored a listed building that was totally bare and had been empty for three years. Had to replace everything from scratch including windows and heating system, electrics, walls and structural work.

Thanks
Den

Pont

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/sectors/builders/construction.htm

It should be zero rated but they do state 'approved alterations' to listed buildings. 'Approved' can mean many things to HMRC!

Another related question/help needed on behalf of a friend who is having major problems getting the VAT back on his recent project.

He bought land that had pp granted for a 'New House' a couple of years ago. Planning was granted on condition that he renovated a listed building that was contained on the land, but not joined to the new house. This he agreed to do.

He then sought permission to alter the existing plans of the new house, stone rather than brick, and to move the new house approximately 10m from the original site. This pp was passed without a problem.

Roll on 2 years and the new house is finished and the listed building has been renovated. He has submitted of of his VAT receipts as he believed that a) the new build is zero rated VAT and b) the listed building (which had been unoccupied for 30 years) was also zero rated VAT. The renovated listed building is basically a one room stone shed so could not be used as a living space nowadays.

HMRC has now told him that his new build is not a new build and therefore he can not reclaim VAT! There was nothing there before - it was a field! They seem to be suggesting that as the new house is part of the same development as the listed building (although they are separate by some 5m) there is no VAT refund due. The LA refer to the house as a 'new dwelling' but have said that they can't help in this matter.

All I can suggest is that either a) the house is a new build or b) If HMRC are 'linking' the listed part to the new build then this is a conversion of a listed building. Nonetheless, both would be zero rated for VAT purposes.

I can't work out what description HMRC are designated the house and therefore their arguments for not refunding the VAT. HMRC have not been very helpful in clarifying their position/reasoning.

It makes absolutely no sense at all to me. Any ideas as to how to proceed?

leveller2911

It may be that as the new build falls within the curtiage of the Listed dwelling its classed as part of the same development.

One thing I do know for certain and that is when your renovating a Listed property any work that is classed as "Maintenance" is NOT zero rated for vat.So for instance if you replace the existing staircase in the same position its vat payable, if you replace all existing windows and doors (keeping them in the same position within the house) vat is payable. There is an exception which is if you replace an existing aluminium window for aesthetic reasons its zero rated.

If you cut a whole in a wall and fit a new window in a new opening its zero rated as this is classed as "Alterations"..

Basic rule is any work that is "Maintenance" is vat payable and "Alterations" are zero rated, but there are exceptions but I know for sure that much of the renovating of the Listed building would not be zero rated, only the alterations.If you plaster an old wall its not zero rated.

I'm no expert ,but I am vat registered and work on Listed Houses , there is a poster on here who is very knowledgable think his name is Jason LVC ...Also might be an idea to employ an accountant.

Pont

leveller2911 wrote: »

It may be that as the new build falls within the curtiage of the Listed dwelling its classed as part of the same development.

Thanks - I believe this is exactly how HMRC are viewing this.
However, if this is the case wouldn't all of the new build be zero rated anyway? There were no footings, walls, roof etc previously (on the new build part of the development) so surely this couldn't be 'maintenance'.

Do you think there could be an argument that my friend should have submitted his VAT receipts using form VAT431C (Conversion of a non-residential building [property] to a residential building [property] , rather than form VAT431NB which he used believing his house to be a totally new house?

It all just seems totally bizarre to me.

Jasssssssoooonnn!

leveller2911

Pont wrote: »

leveller2911 wrote: »

Thanks - I believe this is exactly how HMRC are viewing this.
However, if this is the case wouldn't all of the new build be zero rated anyway? There were no footings, walls, roof etc previously (on the new build part of the development) so surely this couldn't be 'maintenance'.

It all just seems totally bizarre to me.

Jasssssssoooonnn!

I'm no expert ,like I said but it does seem bizarre as the new build was a total new build. I'm fairly sure that much of the Listed work would not be zero rated..

Jason is a regular so hopefully he will be about somewhere and there may be others who are more qualified to help.