Why do people buy manuals these days ?

Mark_Hewitt

I do like autos; however manuals have several advantages.
* Cost - Autos are usually at least £1,000 more expensive. Plus they are often only available for one model in a range, so if you don't want that model, tough!
* Control - I quite often like to have full control over the engine revs, e.g. slipping the clutch with high revs away from a standing start, plus being able to control when the upshifts happen to maximise the acceleration - or not, depending on what I want to do!
* In poor weather the option to use a different gear when driving slowly helps a lot!

However most of my driving is on dual carriageways or twisty A-roads where manuals are excellent. If most of my driving was stop-start in city centres I may well prefer an auto box.

bigjl

I think the main reason for the increase in the number of autos on the roads is mainly due to congestion, especially in Urban areas.

Any vehicle used by the MetPol (London) for rapid response to incidents, eg, Area Car, Traffic or Armed Responce Units have been Auto for many years.

The London Ambulance Service has had Automatic Ambulance's for years, apart from a year or two in the early 90's when they had a few diesel manuals, which broke all the time and where generally hated.

We had a couple of Cavalier SRis in '93, but they weren't used much, only for major incidents, at the same time the Met still used manuals for most rapid responce duties.

There was research done by the Met into the safety benefits of automatics and it was this that led to the widescale move to autos for rapid responce use.

Outer county police and ambulance still mainly use manuals though.

I don't know of any Black Cabs in London that are manual, I think you used to have to sit your cab driving test in a manual to be allowed to use one in London, though manuals are the norm in Glasgow due to the number of hills breaking the autos. A lot of minicabs are auto these days, leading to a reduction in what used to be called "minicab drivers bollock" or more likely a groin strain caused by several thousand clutch presses a day.

If I lived in a in a rural part of Scotland again I would be tempted to go back to manual, but even though I drive a manual Mondeo I still prefer auto, but i drive in London traffic a lot and an auto is a much easier car to drive in congested areas.

The DSG box as fitted to VAG cars is a nice gearbox, lightning quick changes, but when fitted to the 140bhp diesel has a bit of delay when pulling away from a junction or similar, but that is something you can say of a manual 140bhp diesel and it can be sorted by a simple remap.

Autobox technology has indeed come a long way, but when we used Astras as RRU's in London we only had one or two gearboxes break. The old V8 LDV's had 4 speeds in, I think, a ZF box, again very few breakdowns due to gearbox issues, we had this V8 engine and ZF box combination for about 18 yrs in London so any weaknesses would have shown up pretty soon.

The safety improvments that I talked about where mainly due to the driver being more focussed on the road and traffic conditions as there was one less thing to think about, though both the Met Police and the LAS are taught to drive in manual vehicle for most of the course, this has changed in London recently with the introduction of custom made driver training vehicles that are similar to front line Ambulances, but with extra rows of seats instead of a bed and cupboards in the back, aswell as several cameras and the facility to replay the footage of the drive to address any issues.

Even our current Zafiras have had few gearbox issues, about the only thing that hasn't given trouble on them. The biggest issue is the high fuel consumption with them, an autobox needs to be matched to the engine in my opinion, the one in the diesel Zaf's revs the engine like a petrol, this issue isn't there with the Merc Sprinters though.


I totally understand why some people are never going to want to drive an automatic car, but understand that sometimes thre are very good reasons to have them.

Somebody mentioned traffic cars used on the Motorway being Auto's, this isn't strictly true, though some forces have introduced more recently, but the only Force to have any significant number is the Met and City of London plod. Most of Thames Valley traffic cars are still manual, same with South Wales, the Scottish Forces use mostly manuals, as do Essex, I think the only Autos that Esseex use are the new Evo's, though not sure about the new BMW traffic cars.

I feel more involved with a manual, however my Legacy had a 4 speed tiptronic box which was nice, and I drove a DSG equipped Passat for a month of so a couple of years ago, that was one of the nicest Autos I have driven, apart from the slight delay when pulling away which was no worse than the delay in the same conditions that some of our Zafiras exhibit, that and the DMF going bang didn't help the cause either.

Gene_Hunt_2

bigjl wrote: »

I think the main reason for the increase in the number of autos on the roads is mainly due to congestion, especially in Urban areas.

Any vehicle used by the MetPol (London) for rapid response to incidents, eg, Area Car, Traffic or Armed Responce Units have been Auto for many years.

The London Ambulance Service has had Automatic Ambulance's for years, apart from a year or two in the early 90's when they had a few diesel manuals, which broke all the time and where generally hated.

We had a couple of Cavalier SRis in '93, but they weren't used much, only for major incidents, at the same time the Met still used manuals for most rapid responce duties.

There was research done by the Met into the safety benefits of automatics and it was this that led to the widescale move to autos for rapid responce use.

Outer county police and ambulance still mainly use manuals though.

I don't know of any Black Cabs in London that are manual, I think you used to have to sit your cab driving test in a manual to be allowed to use one in London, though manuals are the norm in Glasgow due to the number of hills breaking the autos. A lot of minicabs are auto these days, leading to a reduction in what used to be called "minicab drivers bollock" or more likely a groin strain caused by several thousand clutch presses a day.

If I lived in a in a rural part of Scotland again I would be tempted to go back to manual, but even though I drive a manual Mondeo I still prefer auto, but i drive in London traffic a lot and an auto is a much easier car to drive in congested areas.

The DSG box as fitted to VAG cars is a nice gearbox, lightning quick changes, but when fitted to the 140bhp diesel has a bit of delay when pulling away from a junction or similar, but that is something you can say of a manual 140bhp diesel and it can be sorted by a simple remap.

Autobox technology has indeed come a long way, but when we used Astras as RRU's in London we only had one or two gearboxes break. The old V8 LDV's had 4 speeds in, I think, a ZF box, again very few breakdowns due to gearbox issues, we had this V8 engine and ZF box combination for about 18 yrs in London so any weaknesses would have shown up pretty soon.

The safety improvments that I talked about where mainly due to the driver being more focussed on the road and traffic conditions as there was one less thing to think about, though both the Met Police and the LAS are taught to drive in manual vehicle for most of the course, this has changed in London recently with the introduction of custom made driver training vehicles that are similar to front line Ambulances, but with extra rows of seats instead of a bed and cupboards in the back, aswell as several cameras and the facility to replay the footage of the drive to address any issues.

Even our current Zafiras have had few gearbox issues, about the only thing that hasn't given trouble on them. The biggest issue is the high fuel consumption with them, an autobox needs to be matched to the engine in my opinion, the one in the diesel Zaf's revs the engine like a petrol, this issue isn't there with the Merc Sprinters though.


I totally understand why some people are never going to want to drive an automatic car, but understand that sometimes thre are very good reasons to have them.

Somebody mentioned traffic cars used on the Motorway being Auto's, this isn't strictly true, though some forces have introduced more recently, but the only Force to have any significant number is the Met and City of London plod. Most of Thames Valley traffic cars are still manual, same with South Wales, the Scottish Forces use mostly manuals, as do Essex, I think the only Autos that Esseex use are the new Evo's, though not sure about the new BMW traffic cars.

I feel more involved with a manual, however my Legacy had a 4 speed tiptronic box which was nice, and I drove a DSG equipped Passat for a month of so a couple of years ago, that was one of the nicest Autos I have driven, apart from the slight delay when pulling away which was no worse than the delay in the same conditions that some of our Zafiras exhibit, that and the DMF going bang didn't help the cause either.

Mainly because Volvo f**ked up with the second generation of T5's.

bigjl

Gene_Hunt wrote: »

Mainly because Volvo f**ked up with the second generation of T5's.

Don't know much about them to be honest, though I have driven the last shape T5 (58 plate) in Police spec(no radio and different cloth on the seats) with an autobox and it seemed fine. Though wouldn't be unusual for the new, fancy gearbox to be less robust than the one it replaces, Merc now fit a less robust gearbox to the auto Sprinters, which is normally fitted smaller models, the older box, fitted to larger cars and the ML was, I reckon, proving too reliable, cynical? Me? The crap tiptronic box they fitted to Sprinters pre 2003 was a nightmare, and led to LAS cancelling the initial order for Mercs, we had 10 or so on trial in 2001, but didn't order till they brought out the new 5 speed box.

The main reason for outer county forces using manuals is the high miles and the fact that a well driven manual will need a lot less repairs than an autobox used the same way. And the lack of constant use in congested traffic. Though the fuel consumption issue may be relevant aswell, if they do a total of 1 million miles a year in the RRv's/Traffic cars and can reduce fuel consumption by 5 or 10% then the saving is considerable over the life of the car.

We have 6 yr old Zafiras used 24/7 that have only just gone over the 80k mark. A similar aged RRV in Essex/East of England would be on well over 200k and have responded to half the number of calls.

An even better way to show this is looking at eBay, an ex East Anglia/now East of England Sprinter Ambulance, with a manual box, a 2002/3 has almost 400k on the clock, we have just scrapped an X reg 2001 LDV that had 145k on the clock. Original engine and box.

I don't think an automatic Sprinter would have gone 400k without going bang in an expensive way, about 4k or 5k for a new one apparently.

Gene_Hunt_2

bigjl wrote: »

Don't know much about them to be honest, though I have driven the last shape T5 (58 plate) in Police spec(no radio and different cloth on the seats) with an autobox and it seemed fine. Though wouldn't be unusual for the new, fancy gearbox to be less robust than the one it replaces, Merc now fit a less robust gearbox to the auto Sprinters, which is normally fitted smaller models, the older box, fitted to larger cars and the ML was, I reckon, proving too reliable, cynical? Me? The crap tiptronic box they fitted to Sprinters pre 2003 was a nightmare, and led to LAS cancelling the initial order for Mercs, we had 10 or so on trial in 2001, but didn't order till they brought out the new 5 speed box.

The main reason for outer county forces using manuals is the high miles and the fact that a well driven manual will need a lot less repairs than an autobox used the same way. And the lack of constant use in congested traffic. Though the fuel consumption issue may be relevant aswell, if they do a total of 1 million miles a year in the RRv's/Traffic cars and can reduce fuel consumption by 5 or 10% then the saving is considerable over the life of the car.

We have 6 yr old Zafiras used 24/7 that have only just gone over the 80k mark. A similar aged RRV in Essex/East of England would be on well over 200k and have responded to half the number of calls.

An even better way to show this is looking at eBay, an ex East Anglia/now East of England Sprinter Ambulance, with a manual box, a 2002/3 has almost 400k on the clock, we have just scrapped an X reg 2001 LDV that had 145k on the clock. Original engine and box.

I don't think an automatic Sprinter would have gone 400k without going bang in an expensive way, about 4k or 5k for a new one apparently.

I don't think there is a reason and that much thought wouldn't go into it. There seems to be no set pattern on who buy auto/manuals. Some even buy a mixture.

Gene_Hunt_2

ts_aly2000 wrote: »

As a passenger in an automatic they make me feel sick. They have this characteristic slipping to them and I don't like it.

When driving the things I don't feel like I'm in control.

Three pedals is what's meant to be in the footwell and that's that!!

That's because they're driven badly and you have poor car control.;)

Gene_Hunt_2

ts_aly2000 wrote: »

Tell that to my Observer.

Give me an email address and I will.

Gene_Hunt_2

ts_aly2000 wrote: »

http://www.neleiam.co.uk/Driving_Information/Automatic_Gearboxes/automatic_gearboxes.html

Fire away.

That's a wed address not email.;)

movilogo

Many people who advocate they enjoy changing gear don't realize that one can change gear in autos as well! I have previously driven manuals and now drive auto. I love to drive and I see no change in driving pleasure (well, crawling in M25 with auto now more enjoyable).

Not just automated manuals (which is I think are bit rubbish anyway) but even tradional torque converter autos allow you to select a specific gear!

Main reason why people buy manual is price. Autos are usually more expensive to buy and thus their used price is also higher.

If tomorrow autos become cheaper than manuals, then everyone will go for autos.

In USA, autos are cheaper so 99% folks drive autos only.

There are some myths about autos.

Myth: Autos consume more fuel than manuals
Fact: Most autos have lock up clutch for 4th/5th gear (which is as good as manual). They also have a lower geared ratios than manuals. So, fuel economy is almost as good as manual.

Myth: Autos are not reliable
Fact: A bad driver can damage manual gearbox even more easily! If you buy a car with long warranty, reliability does not matter. In USA, cars come with 10-yr engine/transmission warranty.

Myth: Manuals offer more control
Fact: For day to day driving, autos can do everything what a manual can do. However, autos have few tricks in their sleeves, like not moving backward when waiting on hill (manuals need a Hill Assist Control for that for those who can't control clutch), creeping forward in slow traffic when legs tucked under seat etc. As stated in the beginning of my post, one can shift gear lever exactly in same way as of manual to change gears (but why keep a dog and bark yourself?)

Myth: Autos are for girls/disabled/idiots/lower IQs etc.
Fact: All luxury cars (Bentley, Rolls Royce etc.) are autos! Mercedes only invests in auto technologies (that's why Merc manuals have poor resale values). People need to change their mindset.

Autos are also much easier to drive off road. Anyone other than veteran 4X4 drivers will stall engine in any offroad scenarios with a manual. Where as with an auto, even a novice can tackle a good bit of off road using a 4x4 (from my experience of driving Landrovers in real off roads).

Of course if you are after a race track car then even slight lag on gear shift is unacceptable. But for regular day to day driving, autos are better than manuals (except probably in small cars where autos will sap power).

PS: I hate semi automatics, they are just worst of both worlds.

darkwarrior

A manual is more work? Its 2 seconds of moving a stick. It's so effortless that you forget you're doing it and it just becomes instinct.