Is it normal to be 'traumatised'/'paranoid' after redundancies?

smallpurplepill

Hi all

I wasn't sure if this belongs in 'employment' or 'redundancy' as it is more of a general question. Obviously I haven't gone into too many specifics so as not to be personally identified!

My "last job but one" I was at for several years. In that time the company had a few rounds of redundancies due to restructuring etc. I wasn't directly affected by most of them, but was very much aware of what was going on as it was only quite a small company and people talk. Towards the end of the employment I was put in a redundancy situation myself, as part of a small 'pool' of people. I 'survived' and stayed at the company. Wasn't happy though and tried to leave, mostly due to salary as I wanted to buy a house (had job offer) but was 'persuaded' to stay. Still unable to buy.

The last round of redundancies included myself and most of the others in my area. When it was announced I left voluntarily, as I really needed an ongoing job more than a lump sum.

The company I went to was 'ok', not much to say about it really. I had good appraisals and feedback and boss was pleased with what I was doing but I had this nagging feeling that I was being 'pushed out' and I found a job advert for a similar sounding job within the company in a different department - don't think it was 'my' job but did wonder. Asked boss and was told no, I was being silly (not in as many words!!) and job was safe. It wasn't exactly the reason for leaving but did spur me on to look and apply.

I hadn't been there that long, but had passed probation etc and was making enquiries to the bank for a mortgage application. had almost got to the stage of being the official application. But then moving on again scuppered it again! (All in all with one thing or another I've been unable to buy a house for 10 years now, am still stuck renting!)

Now am at working at new company and have been for a while (so not so new any more!) but getting this funny feeling again, like some of the work is potentially duplicated or being done by others and there 'could' be another redundancy situation. Asked boss about this and told this was unlikely to be the case (though obviously no guarantee!) but still can't help wondering.

I've only just got to the stage where the bank would feasibly consider lending for a mortgage again. But now I am thinking about looking around for another new job! before it happens again.

Any time I see bosses are in meetings with other bosses or HR or there are various emails going around I'm always conscious that they could be planning redundancies or 'how to get people out' etc (though probably it's really just project planning or whatever!) and I am plagued by this idea that redundancy could happen again at any time now!

So I guess what I am wondering is ... is it 'normal' to be paranoid and worried like this after going through redundancies? (I am asking from an employment rather than mental health perspective - is it something that happens a lot - though I guess it could be mental health!). It's starting to bother me a lot now as I can't move on in life 'in case it happens again' but I don't know if another new job would solve it!

Any thoughts appreciated...

ska_lover

HI there, I can totally sympathise with you. I have been in a similar situation and have been made redundant from my industry three times in my working life - all because of branch closures. During one particularly bad spell, I was made redundant twice in two years. My advice to you is to not jump ship though unless you are positive that redundancies are on the cards, as having multiple employers doesnt bode well for your C.V but redundancy is always going to be an 'acceptable' way to leave in the eyes of a potential employer.
You do sound a little paranoid, but I myself am as well - and I feel sure this is normal, as you do get to know the signs of what potentially may be coming - when you see HR lurking around -and there is stuff i pick up on in my current job that has my ears pricked up i must admit. It is more of an awareness of potential changes, things you hear etc. I must say though, I have always believed in 'no smoke without fire' as any company I have worked at where there have been rumours, they have always come true. It is heartbreaking having to leave a job you like, I really miss my previous job, as the people I worked with and the job were great. Where I am now, although the job is relatively the same, its not so good and the people are not my type at all. I work with a couple of women who are nearing retirement and are just ticking over and are actually meant to be my assistants, but they can never complete a task and are clearly jealous of a woman less than half their age on double their salary. I think its the people I miss the most when I get made redundant from a good one. These are just my thoughts dont worry, you are normal xx

tgon

I've had the misfortune of four redundancies in my working life and all the wretched misery that brings, the last one taking 12 months to get back to work. Paranoia and worry are my constant companions in the current UK economic climate. I wish I could move on also, even back to blissful Fate if my ol' friend Optimism has gone forever.

It is normal - I know of no cure.

ceridwen

You don't sound as if you have actually been made redundant in any of these jobs??? I can understand, however, why you are concerned.

I lived in "blissful ignorance" that redundancy could happen to people like me - until it did. My first reaction was sheer disbelief and shock - because I "knew" (or thought I did....:cool:) that redundancy simply didnt happen to "people like me". It had honestly never occurred to me that I could ever get made redundant...

Once it HAD happened to me - it's always been at the back of my mind worrying in case it did again (and indeed it has happened again since then...:mad:).

I would say the best thing would be for you to stick at the job and go ahead with house purchase anyway BUT with the corollary that you had better take out whatever mortgage protection insurance you need to (in order to allow for the fact that the DWP doesnt pay out the mortgage interest part of benefit money until one has been unemployed a while - think its 13 weeks?).

So thats your best bet:
- check out the exact level of help with mortgage interest the DWP gives unemployed people (this also influences the amount one is able to pay for a house these days if in a vulnerable position - think they don't cover mortgage interest on places with a mortgage of over £100,000??)
- check out the exact provisions of mortgage protection insurance by the various different companies providing it (in order to make sure you didnt pick one that would try and get out of paying if need be)
- go ahead and buy a place with a mortgage level no higher than what the DWP would cover if you became unemployed
- Take out mortgage protection insurance to cover whatever part of the mortgage payments the DWP wouldnt if you became unemployed


Don't forget - if you become unemployed and have to go onto benefit - then the DWP will regard even money saved towards a house deposit as part of your "capital" - and its ONLY £6,000 "capital" they allow claimants to have before starting to cut the amount of benefit they pay them. Therefore its best to use house savings as soon as possible because then they will be safely tied up in "bricks and mortar" in your home and won't count as "capital" any more should you become unemployed.

shikoku

I have been made redundant three times, I'm afraid I no longer consider any job to be permanent.

CFC

The concept of a job for life has gone. Don't let the possibility of being made redundant again wreck your life and career. Accept it can happen, insure against it for mortgage purposes, and live knowing it can happen.

smallpurplepill

Thanks for all the responses - (let's see if I can get this multi-quote to work! )

ska_lover wrote: »

My advice to you is to not jump ship though unless you are positive that redundancies are on the cards, as having multiple employers doesnt bode well for your C.V but redundancy is always going to be an 'acceptable' way to leave in the eyes of a potential employer.

True, I was quite conscious of this, having left my second job (of the 3 I mentioned) after a 'relatively' short time, though I did have other reasons for leaving and was able to explain those at least... you're right it will start to look a bit odd if I move on again (and really I just want a job I can get on with!)

ska_lover wrote: »

You do sound a little paranoid, but I myself am as well - and I feel sure this is normal, as you do get to know the signs of what potentially may be coming - when you see HR lurking around -and there is stuff i pick up on in my current job that has my ears pricked up i must admit. It is more of an awareness of potential changes, things you hear etc. I must say though, I have always believed in 'no smoke without fire' as any company I have worked at where there have been rumours, they have always come true.

Yes, I feel like I see 'further down the line' than most people (even bosses - who presumably have more information - or maybe not?!) - knowing that something is going to happen before most people do. Means being branded a bit of a doom monger!

ceridwen wrote: »

You don't sound as if you have actually been made redundant in any of these jobs??? I can understand, however, why you are concerned.

I haven't been, as the first one I did actually have the letter and details but it was some months away (in the meantime we were just going to be finishing off projects etc). By leaving voluntarily I've avoided that at least (but at the cost of several thousand pounds!)

ceridwen wrote: »

Don't forget - if you become unemployed and have to go onto benefit - then the DWP will regard even money saved towards a house deposit as part of your "capital" - and its ONLY £6,000 "capital" they allow claimants to have before starting to cut the amount of benefit they pay them. Therefore its best to use house savings as soon as possible because then they will be safely tied up in "bricks and mortar" in your home and won't count as "capital" any more should you become unemployed.

Thanks for the practical advice on insurances etc, which I'll have to look at a bit more (previously I had thought that I "won't waste money" on income insurance etc as I was nearly able to fully offset, but isn't necessarily wise!) - can you expand a bit more on the £6000 capital and getting money 'away' into a house instead? Is there such a thing as 'deprivation of assets' that X years/months (?) before making a claim a house purchase would be "deliberately spending capital" (or however you would word it) rather than just the normal thing of needing somewhere to live!

ceridwen

I know about the concept of "deprivation of capital". I would say, however, that any money one has spent on ANYTHING before one has been officially told "Sorry mate you're redundant" has been safely spent. There are certain assets the DWP can go for if one is claiming benefit (eg a second home). However they could go for a SECOND home regardless of when one had acquired it.

Any asset that doesnt per se count as one the DWP could expect you to "cash in" is safely yours - provided it was bought before redundancy was officially announced. If you just "know" in your own mind or fear that a redundancy is forthcoming - then, as you had no way of "officially" knowing then how could the DWP know that you "knew" IYSWIM?

In any firm that declares redundancies people will fall into several categories:
1.- those that only knew when the firm actually gave them the redundancy letter
2.- those who suspected that "summat was up" a few months beforehand
3. the "one in a million" person that "knew" in their own mind a couple of years in advance (and that person probably "knew" before management even knew).

If you happen to be one of the few people that is in Category 3 in that respect and spent accordingly - then that is just your good fortune that you have a very good grasp of "which way the wind is blowing";):D

I would say even people in category 2. can safely spend away until they are told. My definition of spending that would be at risk of being defined as "deprivation of capital" would be to deliberately spend on things once even category 1. knew there were redundancies happening. I can think of a firm I know, for example, where any category 3. people in it would have "known" in 2007, category 2. people would have known in 2009, category 1. people have only just found out.

Until the category 1. people know - then go right ahead.

I tend to be a category 3. person - fortunately:D. Hence - that is EXACTLY the way I personally proceed:D. I would only stop spending if category 1. people were visibly worrying/wondering (because after all - how could the DWP have expected me to know I would be redundant when the redundancies hadnt been announced?;);)). The DWP has to assume that everyone is a category 1. person and act according to that (they will be right in that about 80% of the people after all....).

***************

Money tied up in one's own home that one lives in is always safe from the DWP - and one just has to be sure that sufficient is paid to keep the mortgage company happy (ie at least giving them the mortgage interest even if on benefit). Its SECOND homes that are at risk (as stated previously). If you live in the house then you are safe from the DWP at any rate on that one (bearing in mind that there are rules as to how much of the mortgage interest the DWP will pay and for how long - I think, for instance, that they now restrict the level of mortgage they will cover to £100,000 for instance??)

£6,000 capital is all one is allowed to have by the DWP (after the first 6 months of unemployment - which are, presumably, covered by N.I. stamps paid to date by you). That £6,000 includes all money you have (savings, redundancy payments, etc). Someone commented once that it even literally includes the cash in your purse/wallet. I understand it includes the last paypacket you receive from an employer as well??

*Chattie*

b0llocks, you should be a financial advisor or an mp being a one in a million type person who knows what will happen in the future two years hence.

ceridwen

(re above)

..and there's some peoples "names" that you know automatically will be "having a go" at you - as soon as you see them. The only question is what bit of criticism it will be this time......:whistle:

So - have you got any useful advice and/or moral support to give to the O.P. - or did you just come on to have (another) go at me?

Primrose

I don't think you're unusual at all in fearing redundancy, or being in a state where you're continually looking over your shoulder, especially in current times. I think anybody who has gone through the experience of being made redundant always carries a little scar of emotional insecurity with them going forward.
I think it would be quite reasonable to say that any company who is on the ball at the moment will be keeping a very close eye on their daily cash flow and their daily overheads, and yes, of course, staffing costs can often be a large proportion of this money outflow. So companies will be watching their sales figures, and if they're falling, making contingency plans about laying off staff. I'm afraid that in the current economic situation, it's an occupational hazard.

All you can do is rein in your domestic spending and put by as much spare cash as you can in case redundancy does happen, even if one is getting very little interest on savings at the moment.

You do seem to have moved jobs rather a lot in the recent past and I suggest for the time being you keep your head down rather than looking to move on again, otherwise your CV history will look rather chequered and future employers may start to wonder about staying power. Whilst your current job may not be ideal, it's a job, and getting the bills paid every month is something not to be taken lightly at the moment. If redundancy is going to happen in the future, there's nothing you can do to prevent it. all you CAN do is try and increase your skill levels and competence in your current role, and keep yourself as well financially prepared as possible.