'Not following Job Centre Directiions'

Savvy_Sue

Sambucus_Nigra wrote: »

But only the tutor can see them all....I can't see why people have a problem with introducing themselves - it's only polite to know who you are in the same room as for half a day or a day.

Depends on the seating plan: if we're 'in the round' I can usually see everyone's name. Actually the last course I did we were sat in rows facing the front, and I could still twist my head round to see everyone's name.

I don't have a problem introducing myself. I have a problem with people muttering / not speaking clearly. And I have a problem remembering what people say, supposing I heard it in the first place.

And yes, I do wear my hearing aid to training courses, and if the course leader is muttering / not speaking clearly I'll let them know!

apbmdd

donnajunkie wrote: »

isnt it a bit odd that if they are meeting a group of people for the first time that they are able to remember each persons name so that they can note that they havent taken part? apart from on arrival did you do anything to give them your name? did they ask you your name mid session at all?

There was only 4 of us there, 2 men and 2 women so probably wasn't that hard to figure out. Oh, and I did complete a task sheet that had to have my name and NI number on it...

apbmdd

I have now composed a list of bullet points to take when I have to sign on tomorrow. No doubt I'll just be told to fill in a form but at least I've done all the leg-work and can just use what I've already done. I'll post what I've written underneath...


1. The purpose of the session, according to the letter is to explain, remind and inform Jobseekers of the guidelines of being on Jobseekers Allowance and where help can be sought. Nowhere does it state that active discussions will take place. I was under the impression that this was an information giving session as this is what is alluded to in the letter.
2. The letter I was given states to ‘attend and take part in a back to work session’. What is the definition of ‘take part’ in this instance? Is actively listening and doing all required tasks not taking part? I cannot find any literature given to me by the JobCentrePlus that provides a definition.
3. The ‘trainer’, Paula, did not, at any time, invite me to speak nor asked me a direct question. There was a gentleman also at the session, named Phil, who seemed to be well-known to Paula and much of the time was taken up with them discussing his own personal circumstances. My circumstances are very different from his and so much of the discussion between Phil and Paula was not relevant to me.
4. During my time at university and whilst in graduate employment I have been trained on how to ‘actively listen’. Active listening does not mean that I have to speak to understand what is being said. I listened, understood and reflected on all information that was imparted to me. As I have thoroughly read the JobCentrePlus website and all literature given to me I learnt nothing I didn’t already know. I appreciated the refresher but I didn’t have any questions to ask.
5. I was given a ‘next steps’ task sheet to fill out and hand in. I did this to the best of my ability given the time allowed and gave it back in to go into my file. Is that also seen as not participating?
6. The letter stated the session would last 60 minutes. When the session started Paula informed us that it would take around 30 minutes. However, the session last just over 50 minutes and most of this extra time was taken up with her conversation with Phil.
7. I did not feel comfortable during this session and I felt like an ‘outsider’. Had I have had any questions to ask, I would not have felt at ease to do so due to the fact other people dominated the session.

apbmdd

I have also complied a list of what I would like the JCP to do for me....

Here it is! Let me know what you think...

1. An address to write and complain, separate to the appeals process
2. The name of the Manager for *********** JCP
3. To know who to write to regarding the Freedom of Information Act so I can request copies of all documentation relating to me.
4. A log of the session I am supposed to not have participated in
5. A comprehensive reason as to why this action has been taken against me
6. A written, detailed definition of what ‘take part’ means

frostyfeet

Failed to Participate (FTP) is a different type of sanction to Failed to Attend,although the penalty is the same. It's not about asking a token question...you can sit quietly and just listen and that wont be held against you. If you refused to respond to a question asked directly to you,or you left before the end of the session or if you attended but then spent most of the session talking on your mobile phone then this is where FTP comes in. If the Jobcentre has submitted a case on FTP they will need to give a summary of why they felt you failed to participate. They should be able to provide you with their reasons.

apbmdd

frostyfeet wrote: »

Failed to Participate (FTP) is a different type of sanction to Failed to Attend,although the penalty is the same. It's not about asking a token question...you can sit quietly and just listen and that wont be held against you. If you refused to respond to a question asked directly to you,or you left before the end of the session or if you attended but then spent most of the session talking on your mobile phone then this is where FTP comes in. If the Jobcentre has submitted a case on FTP they will need to give a summary of why they felt you failed to participate. They should be able to provide you with their reasons.

I was not asked any direct questions, I did not use my mobile phone, I arrived on time and I left when we were dismissed. I followed all instructions asked of me! I really don't know what else they could've expected of me!

frostyfeet

Good Luck tomorrow, most of what you have asked for should be provided to you with no argument. Remember that the jobcentre staff can't make the decision on the doubt, it has to go to a independent decison maker who will always be on the customers side unless there is solid evidence to the contrary so try not to worry.

apbmdd

I just don't understand why they have done this to me. I'm a normal, hard working, moral person. I'm not out to cheat anyone nor break the rules. I've had the weekend from hell worrying about all this. It's not the actual sanction of not getting the money, it's the fact my file is now tarnished. The whole process is so dehumanised.

Thanks for your post though, has helped me clarify the situation!

frostyfeet

You're welcome. With a Jobseeker Direction, once it has been decided that there is a doubt it has to go to the decision maker as there is no flexibility for discretion. So if they say there is nothing they can do, it's true! But it wont necessarily get disallowed - staff have a target to get a ratio of 50% disallowances to allowances and struggle to meet it! After that, there is always the appeal process.

Don't worry about a 'tarnished' file either, everything has to be confidential and staff should never treat you differently because of a disallowance.....it should make no difference to anything.

Good night!

nearlyrich

Sues48 wrote: »

. However, some of the rudest people I've encountered have been the professional/executive jobseekers. I get the impression that a lot of them think that they are far too good to be coming into the jobcentre and that we should invent a special set of rules and regulations just to accommodate them. I try to be polite and courteous to everyone that I deal with but it can be difficult when someone is speaking to you like something they've brought in on the bottom of their shoe!

To be honest there used to be a separate agency for professionals and executives who's staff were more experienced in finding positions for people who had held senior positions. It can be very stressful having to sign on and being treated like a numpty or a naughty 5 year old doesn't help. I would be most annoyed if I was sent on a course to learn how to use the internet, what a waste of public funds for a start. Instead of tarring everyone with the same brush why not ask people if they are confident using a computer, sending emails, searching for jobs online etc etc. I know in my case the 26 weeks of JSA I would get would represent less than two months deductions and I am sure there are many others in the same position, no excuse for rudeness but I used to work in a UBO and some of my colleagues treated everyone like scum. Genuine hard working people who are used to bringing in decent salaries are likely to be feeling a little worried about how to spin out that £65 per week.;)