Obtaining copy of Parking Place Order/Traffic Order

Pearly11

Hi,

could do with a little bit of advice on this one. I was already advised via this forum here, to obtain a copy of the Parking Place Order or Traffic Order for the particular car park on which my son and I were issued with an unjust PCN, as the ticket was purchased and displayed, but due to turbulence (probably shutting the car door) had flipped over to its front (Fluttering Ticket Syndrom). Sent an email to the council with my request yesterday, setting the deadline as no longer than receiving the document by Wednesday next week. The mailed back that they'd deal with my request in about five working days. This being far too late, I have just contacted the council via telephone and first they stated that I'd have no right to view the document. However, I could educate the lady by telling her that it being a public document I'd have every right to view it without given them a reason for it (which I didn't). She then put me through to the department that holds this particular document and there I was told that they'd bill me £23.50 plus 20 pence for each sheet they need to print. Is this normal and can I claim this back on winning the case?

Thx for any help with this, Pearly

Orford

If you go to the council offices you can view it for free. Some councils will supply a copy, others will charge for photocopying.

Pearly11

Thanks for your reply @ Orford, but they actually bill me £25.50 for fishing the document from their archive and THEN 20 pence for each sheet of paper if I want a copy. So they want £23.50 from me even if I just view it.

Orford

Public documents are available to view without charge

She then put me through to the department that holds this particular document and there I was told that they'd bill me £23.50 plus 20 pence for each sheet they need to print.

Are you sure they weren't quoting a price to send them to you. You should double check

DaveF327

As Orford said, you can view this for free, but it seems that some staff you speak to on the phone become rather confused.

Rather than telephoning, it would be best if you just turned up unannounced at the town hall during office hours and demand to see a copy of the order. When I did this, there was no problem at all.

Pearly11

Yes, the document itself she quoted with £23.50 to view or sending and if I'd want a hard copy, then it would cost me 20 pence per sheet to be printed. But I just found this out in the pepipoo forum:

"Local Government Act 1972 s.228 (7).

Section 228 Local Gov Act 1972.

The TRO is a public Doc and he has to let you have a copy on demand under The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996/2489, r.17(1):

Local Authorities Traffic Orders Procedure Regulations"

So I phoned her again and told her that she had just committed an offence and that I'd expect for the document to be emailed to me as a PDF File no later than Monday coming and free of any illegal fees. I also mentioned the possible involvement of the police in this matter and she agreed to send it on Monday to my email address.

However...this didn't stop me from filing a complaint to Gateshead Council and suggesting to them to train their staff better, as if this was not a training issue and she knowlingly tried to bill me for a Public Document, it would make it a lot more sinsiter. I have asked for a statement from them in about this matter. See what happens. In a bizarre way I'm actually beginning to have a bit of fun here

esmerobbo

Pearly11 wrote: »

Yes, the document itself she quoted with £23.50 to view or sending and if I'd want a hard copy, then it would cost me 20 pence per sheet to be printed. But I just found this out in the pepipoo forum:

"Local Government Act 1972 s.228 (7).

Section 228 Local Gov Act 1972.

The TRO is a public Doc and he has to let you have a copy on demand under The Local Authorities' Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996/2489, r.17(1):

Local Authorities Traffic Orders Procedure Regulations"

So I phoned her again and told her that she had just committed an offence and that I'd expect for the document to be emailed to me as a PDF File no later than Monday coming and free of any illegal fees. I also mentioned the possible involvement of the police in this matter and she agreed to send it on Monday to my email address.

However...this didn't stop me from filing a complaint to Gateshead Council and suggesting to them to train their staff better, as if this was not a training issue and she knowlingly tried to bill me for a Public Document, it would make it a lot more sinsiter. I have asked for a statement from them in about this matter. See what happens. In a bizarre way I'm actually beginning to have a bit of fun here

I have a feeling you may just win this one!:p

Keep it up!;)

Pearly11

Thanks esmerobbo. Losing is not an option in this case and I quite enjoy being a pain in the backside to them lol

Coupon-mad

Pearly11 wrote: »

Thanks esmerobbo. Losing is not an option in this case and I quite enjoy being a pain in the backside to them lol

You are doing brilliantly, a real thorn in the Council's side for a pathetic PCN. They should never have turned down your informal appeal, big mistake! Sounds like they picked on the wrong person!

You will win we all reckon, you understand exactly what the issues are, what you have to do and you have pepipoo on the case. A woman after my own heart!

:T

Pearly11

Coupon-mad wrote: »

You are doing brilliantly, a real thorn in the Council's side for a pathetic PCN. They should never have turned down your informal appeal, big mistake! Sounds like they picked on the wrong person!

You will win we all reckon, you understand exactly what the issues are, what you have to do and you have pepipoo on the case. A woman after my own heart!

:T

Thank you Coupon-mad, especially for the 'A woman after my heart'-bit. I'm hoping to win this case, but even if I don't they won't forget me in long, long time and that is my promise to them. I have just requested from their Parking Regulations Department the contact details of the Adjucation Service and the Local Government Ombudsman in order of starting to launch the appeal. I have also informed them that the phenomenon of 'The Fluttering Ticket' has been officially recognised in 'The Joint Report of the Parking Adjucators for England and Wales 2006' and suggested to them to read this document as it is about their field of work and understanding it would prevent any in their office to misinform people by saying 'Never heard of a ticket moving due to air movement, it just simply can't happen!' I have informed them that due the evidence I have so far collected myself, that I believe that an appeal against this PCN is more than justified and thanked them kindly in advance for providing me with the contact details of the two officials I will need to contact and also asked for access of the photographic evidence in regards to the exact location and position of the ticket.

I'm beginning to feel that I am already costing them more than they would gain, even if we end up having to pay to top-price for the PCN. They should review their economics. I have actually seen a Public Doc on their webside that clearly states that by dishing out parking fines they lose tens of thousands per year. What's the point of that???