Legion Group PCN

Coupon-mad

Flyboy152 wrote: »

Personally, I don't give two hoots what you think. I am happy to instruct the parking control company to give as many tickets as is necessary to deter people from depriving me, my staff and my clients from being able to park on my land. If you want to give me your address, I'll come along and park on your driveway, see how you like it. If you ask me to move, I'll tell you to shove it. Take me to the small claims court and charge me for the privilege.

Which is exactly what I would do if I parked in your space and your jumped up PPC goon slapped a fake PCN on my windscreen.

No-one here condones taking up any disabled space (real or not) when there is no physical need. But who is to say which drivers/passengers/people the driver is collecting do or do not fit the DDA definition of disability? (which does not require having a tattoo on their forehead to confirm their disability any more than it requires them to have a Blue Badge on private land).

We are saying that you don't need a Blue Badge legally, but you do have to have a genuine need, morally, to park in such a space. I think most people agree with that and the misreported and misunderstood myth of 'disabled bay widespread abuse' has been done to death on this forum recently.

And...yawn...do we HAVE to have yet another poster dragging out the ancient old chestnut about 'parking on someone's driveway...'. It doesn't happen in reality, and if it did you could ask the Police to intervene as they can act in cases of obstruction (where the owner's car is blocked, for example).

As for your business spaces. Why not drop the PPC idiots and just put parking cones or a chain there. Keep the PPC idiots and one day one of your legit clients/visitors will get one of those fake PCNs - I expect they would be none too happy about it, especially when the debt collector threatening letters started arriving, all in your name effectively.

Tilt

Flyboy152 wrote: »

The OP cannot have it both ways. either the spaces are for the whole of the park, or they are or the nursery only. If they are for the whole of the park, then any disabled visitor who wanted to use that space could not, because some lazy beggar deprived them of it. If they are there for the sole use of the nursery, the OP's wife should not have used them, because she was not entitled to.

If you read my post #19, you will see that I mention the moral issue of parking in a disabled bay. But on a private car park it has no legal status and thus the 'black & white' approach depends on the idividual's conscience so your points (although I hear and understand where you are comming from) are legally irrelevant.

Sirdan

Flyboy152 wrote: »

Personally, I don't give two hoots what you think. I am happy to instruct the parking control company to give as many tickets as is necessary to deter people from depriving me, my staff and my clients from being able to park on my land. If you want to give me your address, I'll come along and park on your driveway, see how you like it. If you ask me to move, I'll tell you to shove it. Take me to the small claims court and charge me for the privilege.

You would of course park at your own risk ..and believe me leaving your car on my drive could be very risky indeed lol.

Clearly you do give two hoots and more as you keep prolonging the discussion.

If you'd care to give me the address of your premises I'd be happy to park and receive an invoice ..and see you in court :rotfl:

Tilt

Sirdan wrote: »

Surely it is the prescence of the sign with clear terms and conditions which leads to the alleged breach of contract ? Without it there is no breach.
if a PPC wants to make it a term of the contract that certain spaces are solely for the use of a particular group of people aren't they entitled to do so ?
Otherwise I agree with all you have said.

Yes absolutely. BUT how are you going to enforce your terms & conditions when you cannot identify the person who you issue your 'invoice' to? The person who actually parks the car is the person 'entering the contract' which is not necessarily the RK. A PPC have no power to demand from the RK who was driving the car at the time.

Sirdan

Tilt wrote: »

Yes absolutely. BUT how are you going to enforce your terms & conditions when you cannot identify the person who you issue your 'invoice' to? The person who actually parks the car is the person 'entering the contract' which is not necessarily the RK. A PPC have no power to demand from the RK who was driving the car at the time.

I know I agree totally. Someone should tell the PPC's and their pet DCA's (particularly Roxburke !)

Flyboy152

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Which is exactly what I would do if I parked in your space and your jumped up PPC goon slapped a fake PCN on my windscreen.

Which is why I am now considering upping the stakes, by offering persistent offenders the alternative of clamping and/or towing.

No-one here condones taking up any disabled space (real or not) when there is no physical need. But who is to say which drivers/passengers/people the driver is collecting do or do not fit the DDA definition of disability? (which does not require having a tattoo on their forehead to confirm their disability any more than it requires them to have a Blue Badge on private land).

We are saying that you don't need a Blue Badge legally, but you do have to have a genuine need, morally, to park in such a space. I think most people agree with that and the misreported and misunderstood myth of 'disabled bay widespread abuse' has been done to death on this forum recently.

The implications from virtually every post that has supported the OP in ignoring the notice, has been that they should regard labeled bays for the disabled as anything other than a lie and should be ignored. The OP has admitted that his wife ignored the disabled bay notice, because she was too lazy to find somewhere else to park.

And...yawn...do we HAVE to have yet another poster dragging out the ancient old chestnut about 'parking on someone's driveway...'. It doesn't happen in reality, and if it did you could ask the Police to intervene as they can act in cases of obstruction (where the owner's car is blocked, for example).

You can "yawn" as much as you like, it doesn't change the fact that "obstruction" on private property is a civil matter and not a criminal one and as you have taken great pains to point out, has nothing whatsoever to do with the police.

As for your business spaces. Why not drop the PPC idiots and just put parking cones or a chain there. Keep the PPC idiots and one day one of your legit clients/visitors will get one of those fake PCNs - I expect they would be none too happy about it, especially when the debt collector threatening letters started arriving, all in your name effectively.

I have tried the "cones and chains" strategy, but the gits just move them out of the way, so what other fantastic ideas have you got?

If any of my employees or clients inadvertently get a notice, I just simply call the parking control company and have it cancelled, no great problems. But you know what, after three and a half years, it has never happened.

Tilt

Flyboy152 wrote: »

Which is why I am now considering upping the stakes, by offering persistent offenders the alternative of clamping and/or towing.



The implications from virtually every post that has supported the OP in ignoring the notice, has been that they should regard labeled bays for the disabled as anything other than a lie and should be ignored. The OP has admitted that his wife ignored the disabled bay notice, because she was too lazy to find somewhere else to park.



You can "yawn" as much as you like, it doesn't change the fact that "obstruction" on private property is a civil matter and not a criminal one and as you have taken great pains to point out, has nothing whatsoever to do with the police.



I have tried the "cones and chains" strategy, but the gits just move them out of the way, so what other fantastic ideas have you got?

If any of my employees or clients inadvertently get a notice, I just simply call the parking control company and have it cancelled, no great problems. But you know what, after three and a half years, it has never happened.

As the law stands at the moment, you are entitled to imobilise or tow a vehicle which is parked on your property PROVIDING you have in place clear, adequate signage which specifies these consequences to an unauthorised user. The sign must include the operatives details upon it and include any applicable fees. Perhaps by merely putting up such signs will deter your 'gits'.

Sirdan

"The implications from virtually every post that has supported the OP in ignoring the notice, has been that they should regard labeled bays for the disabled as anything other than a lie and should be ignored. The OP has admitted that his wife ignored the disabled bay notice, because she was too lazy to find somewhere else to park."

I hope you never have to go into a court ,that is such a distortion of what has actually been said.
What has been said is that regardless of the moral rights/wrongs of parking in a disabled bay when you are not disabled the invoice should be ignored as it is virtually unenforceable.
I don't recall any posters saying you should ignore signs and wilfully park in a disabled bay when you are not entitled to do so.
It may not sit well with you as a private land owner who has parking issues but it still remains a fact that PPC's virtually never go to court because they KNOW they are on very shaky ground.

d123

Flyboy152 wrote: »

Which is why I am now considering upping the stakes, by offering persistent offenders the alternative of clamping and/or towing.

Better do it quick, you do know clamping on private land is about to be outlawed?

Flyboy152

d123 wrote: »

Better do it quick, you do know clamping on private land is about to be outlawed?

But not towing away. However, I don't trust "Dave" and his lackeys to ever follow through on any promise they make, so I think we will be okay for a while yet.