McCarthy and Stone Service Charge

LisbonLaura

missile wrote: »

That works out at £121.50 + £36.91 = £158.42 per month. Maybe the service charge includes a full time warden and do you need that?

Mc&S insisted they were 'Lady Managers', at one time.
I had an aunt stuck in one of their pretentious places.
She had the audacity to choose non Mc&S approved carpets for it & got penalised.
Remember their TV commercial years ago with Wogan creature 'interviewing' them? It almost gave the vomit-inducing impression they were philanthropically inclined.
Reminds me of a certain BTLer on here.

Lou76

Hi Clibby, my Mum is an ex-House Manager (left November 2010) of a Mc&S complex, so I picked her brains on this tonight - I read your thread a few days ago but didn't fancy phoning her at 1am to ask. :rotfl:

Granted, my Mum was based in a Scottish complex, so this may not be applicable to you, but hopefully it'll give you an idea.

Her residents were paying £2000 per year, per 2 bed flat, in service charge.

The service charge, in her complex anyway, paid my Mum's wage (she was a live-in House Manager) and the rent on her flat [to allow her to live in] plus:

Communal areas' Gas & Elec

Cleaning of communal areas - I know in my Mum's complex they used to clean the outside windows but no idea if this is standard procedure or not.

Laundry room

Gardening

Careline - the 24hr service provided for emergencies
Lift Maintenance - but not repairs e.g. if the cable snaps :eek:

Redecoration of communal areas (scheduled for every 5 years)

I may have missed a few things out, but hey I tried...

Ooh, should add, my Mum said part of the service charge is paid into a contingiency fund to allow for 'unexpected' charges e.g. hike in Elec bills, the lift cable breaking etc. However, should that money not be used, it is carried on to the next year and shown in the accounts for all residents to see, or at least it should be, otherwise the House Manager has something to hide.

Hope this helps?

Fire_Fox

ALL service charges should be "reasonable", "reasonably incurred" and any works to a "reasonable standard" (Landlord-Tenant Act 1985 IIRC). Freeholders or their agents are accountable to leaseholders and you have rights to a stack of information (invoices, contracts, accounts), to withhold payment under certain circumstances and to challenge charges at a Leasehold Valuation Tribunal (even those already paid).

HOWEVER charges will vary substantially depending on the part of the country, economies of scale, what facilities are provided (staffing, gardening, private roadways, heated corridors etc.). You may not wish to get into a situation where you may have to challenge charges in your retirement years, or you may enjoy the challenge!

Not all long leases provide for a 'sinking fund' (Lou 76's contingency). Even if one is in place this does NOT mean freeholders can avoid formally consulting leaseholders on any major works that cost over £250 per apartment. If the lift cable snapped - or in our case part of the fire escape collapsed :eek: - the freeholder can go to an LVT and ask to dispense with the consultation process. IIRC Scotland does not have LVT's as England and Wales do.

A veritable mine of information
http://www.lease-advice.org/publications/documents/document.asp?item=14

Lou76

Fire_Fox wrote: »

ALL service charges should be "reasonable", "reasonably incurred" and any works to a "reasonable standard" (Landlord-Tenant Act 1985 IIRC). Freeholders or their agents are accountable to leaseholders and you have rights to a stack of information (invoices, contracts, accounts), to withhold payment under certain circumstances and to challenge charges at a Leasehold Valuation Tribunal (even those already paid).

HOWEVER charges will vary substantially depending on the part of the country, economies of scale, what facilities are provided (staffing, gardening, private roadways, heated corridors etc.). You may not wish to get into a situation where you may have to challenge charges in your retirement years, or you may enjoy the challenge!

Not all long leases provide for a 'sinking fund' (Lou 76's contingency). Even if one is in place this does NOT mean freeholders can avoid formally consulting leaseholders on any major works that cost over £250 per apartment. If the lift cable snapped - or in our case part of the fire escape collapsed :eek: - the freeholder can go to an LVT and ask to dispense with the consultation process. IIRC Scotland does not have LVT's as England and Wales do.

A veritable mine of information
http://www.lease-advice.org/publications/documents/document.asp?item=14

My head hurts just reading your [informative] post. :eek:

Freeholders/leaseholders I've just about got my head around, just but not quite, through watching Homes Under the Hammer :rotfl:

And I thought, when I bought my flat (near on 9 years ago) the "offers over" system was a headf*ck. I would never have survived Darn Sarf (hope that's a good impression).

And they talk about southern softies...

Fire_Fox

Lou76 wrote: »

My head hurts just reading your [informative] post. :eek:

Freeholders/leaseholders I've just about got my head around, just but not quite, through watching Homes Under the Hammer :rotfl:

And I thought, when I bought my flat (near on 9 years ago) the "offers over" system was a headf*ck. I would never have survived Darn Sarf (hope that's a good impression).

And they talk about southern softies...

Sorry! If it's any consolation when I bought my flat (2004) I did ZERO research into leasehold and service charges. Moved in 2006 and swiftly realised what a shambles our management company were, long long story but the more I read the more I realised how many laws they were breaking .... All the effort I put in saved me several grand in fraudulent service charges, so it was worth becoming a walking encyclopedia. :rotfl: Funny thing is I am a true softie southerner as I was born in Kent; our ex-management company were Scottish. :eek:

Cliddy

Many thanks for your detailed responses above. Very helpfull !! Gives me a lot to go on. Does anyone know of a rival setup that avoids the McCarthy and Stone/Peverill grouping. Although they do appear to have cornered the market. Thanks again.

Fire_Fox

Cliddy wrote: »

Many thanks for your detailed responses above. Very helpfull !! Gives me a lot to go on. Does anyone know of a rival setup that avoids the McCarthy and Stone/Peverill grouping. Although they do appear to have cornered the market. Thanks again.

Unless I am much mistaken, you didn't say McCarthy & Stone were allied to Peverel! :eek: Run away very fast, and don't look back. High cost is the least of your worries, shoddy service well known.

That is a largely irrelevant question - read the LEASE website to see how complex it is to sack a management company. Best bet is to choose a complex which is already self-managed or a small local company which knows their properties well, not a chain.

naspencer

My Dad lives in a McCarthy and Stone flat. Best thing he ever did. At first glance it seems expensive - paid high price in 2002 and service charges since - but was new then, and he's had very little maintenance to do. It seems cheap for electricity (despite being storage heaters) and you have to think about all that's included in the service charge. Careline pull cords in all rooms (and they are very good and helpful if you call - even accidentally!), all communal and exterior maintenance, house manager to help with all sorts of problems. It's not all roses. Nothing ever is, but you need to compare it with all the incidental costs of house ownership - as well as the stress of garden maintenance, roof maintenance, dealing with washing machine problems (Mc & S have a communal laundry) security worries etc etc etc. Peveril aren't particularly low cost, but they are professionally run and have a level of expertise in their field. They are more Waitrose than Poundstretcher. There are a lot of flats empty - as there are inherited houses empty at the moment as people are unwilling to drop their prices. However, if you would benefit from some support from the house manager, would like a bit of company your own age, would like the opportunity to take part in some social activities in the communal lounge and are willing to be a bit firm with the sellers on price, it's not a bad move.
Years ago, when we came to sell our first home - a flat - we had a terrible time trying to convince buyers that the service charge was not a dealbreaker. It's the trade off with a flat - less worry and work over external maintenance and the like, but a higher regular cost. But I tell you, we were better off paying a regular service charge than when we bought our house and had all worry and cost of the maintenance on that!

Cliddy

"naspencer" thanks very much, it ties up well with my experience and limited knowledge to-date and is a great level-headed overview of the issue. Many good and in my opinion accurate opinions. Again thanks.