Grammar School Catchments - Why are they allowed to set their own?

MarzipanFish

I think what you're saying here would make sense if grammar schools were distributed fairly evenly across the country.

As it is the map I googled of where grammar schools are looks like this http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/Grammar_school_ballots_in_England.png/300px-Grammar_school_ballots_in_England.png



And I do see reasons why you're annoyed and feel that kids should go to their local school, but I don't see how it's fair for the brightest kids from neighbouring counties to not get the chance of going to a grammar school even though they'd be better suited to it than kids from nearer the school just because the grammar's further away from them.

If every county had some grammar schools then personally I'd be OK with catchment areas but I think every child should be able to apply to a grammar school if they wish.

Also, with a smaller pool to choose from the school would be taking in (random example) the top 25% rather than the top 5-10% so not only would the grammar school be less effective (I think one of the reasons they're so good is the narrower range of abilities) the comprehensive schools in the area would be significantly negatively affected too.

melancholly

http://www.ngsa.org.uk/schools.php

i hadn't realised how many counties have no grammar schools at all (e.g. norfolk, hereford & worcestershire, hampshire, west sussex, east sussex, suffolk, bedfordshire, leicestershire, derbyshire, nottinghamshire, avon, cornwall, somerset, humberside, northumberland, durham, tyne & wear - i'll have missed some too). i grew up in the south east, where there are lots so never appreciated how limited they are elsewhere. given how scarce they are, it simply wouldn't be fair to limit access by distance.

OP - having seen how few there are, i have to say, campaining for students in your county at the expense of those who have no other option seems extreme. i can understand it to a degree, but if half the country doesn't even have any, limiting access based on largely arbitrary county lines makes no sense to me.

EDIT - the map in the post above makes the point much better than i ever could in words!

MarzipanFish

melancholly wrote: »

OP - having seen how few there are, i have to say, campaining for students in your county at the expense of those who have no other option seems extreme. i can understand it to a degree, but if half the country doesn't even have any, limiting access based on largely arbitrary county lines makes no sense to me.

EDIT - the map in the post above makes the point much better than i ever could in words!

Glad you like it
It's rather an old map (just so happens to be from when I would have been applying to grammar schools!) so I don't know if it's currently correct. AFAIK none have been created since though.

I'm pretty shocked at how few there are and how unevenly distributed they are too. I assumed there were many more!

Looking at the map it seems necessary to have no catchment areas for a lot of the schools in order to allow every child the chance to apply. I think it's very sad that kids can have massive commutes just to get to a school that suits their ability

missbishi

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

Grammar schools allocate places based solely on academic ability/potential and not based on siblings, home address or religious based criteria. They are basically specialist schools in the same way that Catholic or Dyslexic schools are.

Erm, what do you mean by "dyslexic school"? Do you mean special schools by any chance?

GlasweJen

There are schools that specialise in educating children with dyslexia. One of my mums friends kids goes to a school for children with cerebral palsy - it isn't a general special needs school.

faithcecilia

From the map, and from my owm experiences, I suspect it also includes independant grammer schools. My first senior school was an independant grammer, in that school they were so keen to get the best pupils that money wasn't mentioned until a place was offered - scolarships were based on financial need to the pupils who had gained entry rather than entry being given to those who could afford it plus a couple of scholarships. I don't think all independant schools work this way, so some areas may, effectively, be even lower than the map suggests.

ontheroad_2

From the map it appears that "county" grammar schools are non-existent - as not every county has one. In that respect then, it seems fair to me that there is no catchment area for grammar schools.

Grammar school doesn't even come into the equation for my daughter, as we do not have one.

Nicki

What is the funding for the grammar school? Is it all made up by pupil funding, paid for by the local authority from which the pupil comes, or is there an element paid by the local authority where it is physically located which subsidizes the out of borough kids. If the former, then there is no case at all to argue that it's a local resource which should be used to educate local children only to free up more spaces in the comps.

I do have some sympathy for OP who is facing a situation where there are insufficient secondary places for her children in the next few years. This is the case for primary children in my area this year - 200 children have no reception place in the borough this year, and the LA knew this was coming and did nothing to plan for it. It's not at all u reasonable to be lobbying the LA now to make sure this problem gets addressed but it's just not necessary practical or politically possible to address it via the grammar school route OP proposes.

andrealm

I'd be more concerned about the fact that there may be issues with shortages of school places (shouldn't the council be planning for this?) than concerning myself with how far pupils are commuting to go to the grammar school.

Phil_L_2

The reason for the spread of grammar schools is that in the 1970's each local education authority had to decide on the future of its secondary education system. Those LEA's which chose to keep the grammar schools are the ones which generally still have them. Those which chose to bring in a proper comprehensive system are those where no grammar schools exist. This was done by the democratically elected representatives not by the officers. Before anybody contradicts this I had a front row seat whilst it was being done.

I have to say that the OP has a point when this is borne in mind. If an area's elected officials choose a system it is unreasonable that people from another authority take the local provision made for the local people whilst still living in an area where they do not agree with the schooling system.

I am sure that there will be those that do not agree, however, this is how a democratic system should work.