What is taxable/non taxable for form R27?

katieowl_2

I filled in an R27 before Xmas for an estate I am administering, and the HM Revenue have come back to ask me 'the amount of state retirement pension' paid to Mrs X in years ending 2009 and 2010.

I've got the 'how your benefit is made up' letters from the Pension Service for the two relevant years, and obviously all the payments made to the account...But what do I include??? I know that Attendance Allowance is exempt, but the form lists:

Basic State Pension of W(which obviously is a yes...)
Pre 97 Additional state pension of X
Less contracted out deduction (COD) of Y
Totable payable of Z

Then we have:

Graduated Retirement benefit of X
Age Addition of Y
Attendance allowance of Z (which is a No - plus winter fuel payments)

So what should I include in the calculation for each year?
I've just hung on the 0845 number on the letter they sent me for half and hour so goodness knows what that cost me :mad: And I'm a bit surprised, TBH they don't know these figures anyway!

Be grateful if someone could help.

Kate

Mikeyorks

katieowl wrote: »

So what should I include in the calculation for each year?

The gross payment made by Pensions Service each week (4 weeks / 13 weeks). In effect the weekly figure from the yearly advice you hold from Pensions Service x 52 (or pro-rata if one of those years is the year of death?)

But deduct the Attendance Allowance if that's aggregated into the same Pensions Service form (the couple of R27s I've done - the Attendance Allowance was both specified and paid seperately)

katieowl_2

Attendance allowance is paid in with the Pension in this case...not seperately. So basically everything else is taxable? Hmmm will have to see if that tallies with other bits of paper. Thanks!

Kate

Mikeyorks

katieowl wrote: »

So basically everything else is taxable?

Yes - as it's all part of the excessively complex structure of your average State Pension payment.

It should tie up (nearly) with any coding out shown on any PAYE coding notice (P2) you hold. The reason for the 'nearly' is that State Pension is taxable when accrued - not when paid. In the case of 'weekly paid' (in advance) .... they will usually be the same thing. But will differ at the margins where payment is made in arrears ... as is the case for '4 weekly' etc.

katieowl_2

Those were the bits of paper I was thinking of....I do have the PAYE codings...will cross check. So why are they asking me for this info then? Surely they have it in some form already. They are asking about the last two tax years ending 2009 and ending 2010. The current year is the one in which the death occured.

Kate

Mikeyorks

katieowl wrote: »

Surely they have it in some form already.

If they've coded it out - that's a reasonable assumption. As they get an annual 'uprating' of such amounts from DWP each year for such cases ..... at the point the State Pension is being increased by indexation.

Regret I can't envisage why they're asking for it. Normally HMRC appear to accept R27 data with little demur.

katieowl_2

It's probably because I told them I thought we were owed a refund! LOL! Any excuse to hang on to a few quid!

Thanks again!

Kate

Mikeyorks

My limited experience has been that HMRC deal rapidly and sympathetically with R27s. And it is usual that a refund will be due .... if nothing else there will normally be some element of unused allowances. The R27 is actually titled 'Potential repayment to the estate' ..... so HMRC concur!

........... still doesn't explain why you're being asked detail for previous years, however. Just put the figure from the P2's if you can find them and they roughly accord with the annual DWP statement? There's enough hassle being an Executor - without adding other elements unnecessarily? It really does drive home to you how rubbish the CS sides of most UK companies are? Virgin / British Gas / Halifax topped out my useless list.

katieowl_2

I will do, I trawled through the bank statements so I've an actual figure for each year of state pension recieved. They also want the interest figures for the two savings accounts, for the previous years, which were tax deducted at source anyway? I said I thought there was an overpayment in my original letter to them as I've a letter from THEM dated March 2008 telling me there had been an overpayment of £101

Anyway I've pretty much managed to sort this estate out now, this is one of the last things outstanding. So hopefully they will be swift if I rush this info straight back!

It's not been quite as daunting being executor as I'd first feared, and I'd wholeheartedly tell others to sort it out themselves, not use a solicitor, especially if it's a 'simple' estate!
Kate

Mikeyorks

katieowl wrote: »

It's not been quite as daunting being executor as I'd first feared, and I'd wholeheartedly tell others to sort it out themselves, not use a solicitor, especially if it's a 'simple' estate!

I would fully concur with that - despite the few companies on my hate list making every effort to be as useless as possible. I estimate I saved 'my' beneficiaries close to £20k .... predominantly by blocking a trust that would purely have been run by partners in a Solicitors.

I found you primarily need organisation (and spare time at critical stages) rather than lots of grey matter. And, unfortunately, it becomes easier after the first one.

katieowl_2

Well I was POA for the person concerned for some years before her death, so I was in a good position knowledge wise of the affairs of the estate, and because she had been in a care home all the gas/electric/phone had been long taken care of. TOP of my useless list then was Abbey/Santander who proved to be utterly incapable of sorting out our POA, :mad: despite insisting on actually being given the ORIGINAL to copy, which I had to get from the solicitor and return to him so he could stick it back secure storage! (He was NOT amused) They managed to loose the documents several times, and wouldn't speak to me about it, as 'I wasn't authorised' fortunately my friend although incapacitated still had all her marbles, and we dealt with them in the end by her writing a cheque that emptied the account, and I paid it into another bank who were brilliant!

The most annoying people this time were actually the funeral parlour, who messed me about dreadfully. We had in place a pre-paid funeral plan, and when we went to make the arrangements I was told that there was an extra £650 to pay...which I paid on the spot by credit card, then they told me by phone they'd made a mistake and we didn't owe any extra and they'd make a refund, but instead they took an EXTRA £650 off my card, sending me over my limit :mad: After MANY phonecalls, between me, head office, and the local Funeral director, they finally decided I owed about £280 and refunded overcharge, but I STILL haven't managed to get a final invoice out of them, and ended up telling HO that the girl from the FP better never call me again, or I'll hang up on her!

I really should have kicked up the most dreadful fuss, but I know my friend wouldn't have wanted me to get stressed...as the ££ was in the account anyway, I let that one go for her!

Kate