Private Arrangement

Mikeef

Hi,

I'm looking to try and agree with my ex to set up a private arrangement to pay CM rather then involve the CSA.

I have only just been assesed so what I'm paying now I would continue to pay.

Is there a legal document you need to sign just in case 5 years down the line she tries to go back to the CSA and back date 5 years, for example?

Do the CSA have to agree the payments first?

What about re-assesments? Who decides to change the amount to pay - pay rise for example?

Also, I'm unsure how I can see every PWC agreeing to any private agreement as the CSA can legally force payment so why would the PWC risk not receiving anything.

Anyone in a private arrangement?

Thanks

Mike

PreludeForTimeFeelers

You may want to look at this CSA website, it could give you some more answers;
http://www.cmoptions.org/

If your private agreement broke down, and your ex went to the CSA, you wouldn't be expected to make any payments you'd missed, but equally if you've paid her more than the CSA calculation then you couldn't claim 'overpayments'.

clearingout

as a PWC with CSA involvement who doesn't receive anything at all, from my perspective it would be preferable to have a private arrangement and the mutual respect and trust that goes with it. I would prefer to be on decent communicating terms with my ex where our children came first and between us, we made sure that they have everything they need. Sadly, he doesn't see it that way....

my advice would be to build such a relationship with your ex. Don't hide money, pay rises or new jobs. You can sit down together, if necessary, and put your details from your wage slips through the CSA calculator and agree the amount to be paid. Agree a day of the month to pay (assuming you're paid monthly, weekly if not) and pay it on time, every time. If you're up front and decent about it, there is no need to involve the CSA. The CSA get involved, in my opinion, because one side doesn't want to pay, or gets greedy, or feels they're being short-changed because they hear through a friend of a friend of a friend that you're working a second job on the side and bragging to the pub that you don't pay maintenance. There are ways and means to stop this happening to you - and the main ones are honesty and respect.

DUTR

Mikeef wrote: »

Hi,

I'm looking to try and agree with my ex to set up a private arrangement to pay CM rather then involve the CSA.

I have only just been assesed so what I'm paying now I would continue to pay.

Is there a legal document you need to sign just in case 5 years down the line she tries to go back to the CSA and back date 5 years, for example?

Do the CSA have to agree the payments first?

What about re-assesments? Who decides to change the amount to pay - pay rise for example?

Also, I'm unsure how I can see every PWC agreeing to any private agreement as the CSA can legally force payment so why would the PWC risk not receiving anything.

Anyone in a private arrangement?

Thanks

Mike

Looking at some threads that have been posted in the past, personally I would continue to pay via the CSA.
As Clearingout suggests this only works if both parties are trustworthy, whilst the NRP may forget to pay occasionally or be late with payment, the PWC may forget they have receieved payment, at least paying via the CSA there is an 'independant arbitrator' , in any instance keep a paper trail of all monies paid and the dates.
Not sure if there is an official form and receipt to be completed, but would be wise for the comfort of both parties :j

AnxiousMum

After 15 years of dealing with child support - I would start off with the CSA! Until about two years ago my ex used to pay no problem, kept it in line with pay raises etc. There was one glitch, where I got with my new partner and we had children - he felt that it was my new partner's responsibility to provide for the 'entire family'. Didn't understand that no, it was still the responsibility of him and I to provide for 'our' children. It got sorted, and then some years later, he got a new partner, and payments were late, but they came. He then had another child - and payments stopped altogether.

When he stopped paying when his new child was born, I involved maintenance enforcement agency in Canada. They monitor every month's payment and are quite heavy handed when things go amiss. This led to animosity from him, and the end result is that the relationship between him and his boys is somewhat strained - seems his partner had some rather unsavory things to say to my boys - as she felt that her step son and their daughter were being 'robbed' of something that they were entitled to.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is if I had registered our agreement with Maintenance Enforcement right from the start - just as our access order is registered with the courts there, then alot of animosity later down the line might've been non existent. If it was being enforced, I don't think his new partner would've been so quick to risk the sanctions that go along with non payment - but as it was, she knew it would take time to get it enforced etc. If it had been being monitored and enforced, she wouldn't have had the ability to coerce or convince the ex (yes, he's a wimp I know) that any one child was more important than another, or that money should be directed to a new hot tub and sauna for the back garden rather than to his children.

Do it by CSA to begin with, have it monitored - but make sure you keep all paperwork, keep them up to date with changes etc., as from what I read on here, they can make some terrible mistakes and you need to be able to back yourself up. That way, when either one of you move on, no new 'adult' can be the cause of any animosity, either by you, or by your ex saying she didn't receive monies etc. But....make sure that you also have the same protection set up with relationship to access to your children

Diamond78

I know a few couples who have private agreements between them and they have no problems with the arrangments.

If you pay via standing order or cheque and have a decent relathionship with your ex partner, then there is no need to get the CSA involved. The CSA can be a very long and stressfull process but for others the CSA works. Every case is different and if you feel it works for you and you feel better paying through the CSA, then why not?

Mikeef

Thanks for all your comments.

I've been paying via the CSA for over 10 years now. I have a good relationship with my ex so I'm fairly confident she would agree.

Will the CSA try and stop her when she rings them to cancel?

I guess it will be up to her if she agrees to it as its her who will have to cancel it.

Mike

RedSky

AnxiousMum wrote: »

Do it by CSA to begin with, have it monitored

If PWCs are only using the CSA as a means for assuring payment in case future agreements breakdown then that justifies those PWCs contributing towards the cost of enforcing their CSA insurance policy. Private agreements do not work in all situations and some relationships do breakdown but I don't agree that you will avoid animosity by incriminating the NRP from the outset. Its not a particularly pleasant experience being an NRP dealing with the CSA. CMEC put enforcement, opposed to monitoring, in their name for a reason.

missbunbury

Mikeef wrote: »

Thanks for all your comments.

I've been paying via the CSA for over 10 years now. I have a good relationship with my ex so I'm fairly confident she would agree.

Will the CSA try and stop her when she rings them to cancel?

I guess it will be up to her if she agrees to it as its her who will have to cancel it.

Mike

They won't try and stop her from closing the case if that's what she wants to do. They may suggest that she could keep the case open with the assessment in place but instead of you paying through them, she could have the money directly off you - this is called maintenance direct. If she does this, then the money you pay remains a legal requirement for you to pay, and if you did miss payments (not saying you will at all, just hypothetically now) then she could go back to them and have the payment enforced. She could also ask them to reassess if your income changed. If she closes the case entirely and things go wrong down the line, she'd have to start it up again from scratch. If she does go for maintenance direct, then the CSA will assume you're paying unless she says otherwise, so you could over or underpay with her permission. However, if this is the route she chooses to take, then make sure you always have some kind of proof of the payments you make just in case there's any dispute.

AnxiousMum

RedSky wrote: »

If PWCs are only using the CSA as a means for assuring payment in case future agreements breakdown then that justifies those PWCs contributing towards the cost of enforcing their CSA insurance policy. Private agreements do not work in all situations and some relationships do breakdown but I don't agree that you will avoid animosity by incriminating the NRP from the outset. Its not a particularly pleasant experience being an NRP dealing with the CSA. CMEC put enforcement, opposed to monitoring, in their name for a reason.

Mine is a typical case though of the NRP being more than willing to contribute to the children's upbringing UNTIL his new partner was on the scene, and then when they had a child together. It has taken two years to get him back on track, and one year from registering the agreement with the enforcement agency till today - where a cheque for full and final payment of arrears has been mailed to me.
Now.....why should I pay for the enforcement/monitoring when he was the one who decided to stop paying and make that enforcement and monitoring essential? lol Ah well, at least my case wasn't with the CSA - so didn't have to deal with the many mess ups.
Any court orders for child support in Canada are now routinely registered with the Enforcement agency - it's a matter of practice. That way, if payment is ever an issue, you can head straight to enforcement.

RedSky

AnxiousMum wrote: »

Mine is a typical case though of the NRP being more than willing to contribute to the children's upbringing UNTIL his new partner was on the scene, and then when they had a child together. It has taken two years to get him back on track, and one year from registering the agreement with the enforcement agency till today - where a cheque for full and final payment of arrears has been mailed to me.
Now.....why should I pay for the enforcement/monitoring when he was the one who decided to stop paying and make that enforcement and monitoring essential? lol Ah well, at least my case wasn't with the CSA - so didn't have to deal with the many mess ups.
Any court orders for child support in Canada are now routinely registered with the Enforcement agency - it's a matter of practice. That way, if payment is ever an issue, you can head straight to enforcement.

Understandable that enforcement procedures are required when an NRP defaults and I agree you should not have to pay charges in such situations. What I don't agree with from your previous post is your recommendation that both the taxpayer and the NRP pay a price (both in monetary and incriminating terms) just so a PWC can use the CSA as their default insurance policy. People do change and the future cannot be predicted but presuming someone is guilty at the outset without a chance to prove innocence is not likely to help matters.