Self employment credit eligibility

dmliverpool

Hi all,

I will be working as self employed as soon as I get my utr/cis number from hmrc.... We live in hope...

I currently sign on via contribution based jsa.

I started signing on on the tenth of January, but I lost my job back in the 3rd week of November 2010. I have put in a claim for backdated jsa as I was actually looking for work (I gave them a 70 strong heap of job applications I sent in the time period).

By the time I actually start working on a contract I will have been unemployed for more than 13 weeks. The criteria for self employment credit states the you also have to be on jsa.

Does anyone think I would be eligible to get this extra payment? It works out at £50 per week for up to 16 weeks with occasional appointments at re job centre to show how the work is doing.

Has anyone out there come across this or even claimed it before?

I will make a claim for it regardless , However I just wanted some opinions on this as I could do with the extra money to get me going, also I worked out that all the money I earn up until about April will go directly to the tax man anyway so I may as well give it a shot.:o

MX5huggy

Your backdating is very unlikely to be granted, your claim will be from when you first applied.

About the only valid reasons for back dating are could not apply as the JC or contact centre was closed (bank holiday or strike action by JCP staff). But that would only be a couple of days anyway.

Or you where miss directed by JCP staff ie you went in to the Job Centre and you said should I apply now as I am unemployed and they said no leave it a few weeks just apply when you want.

dmliverpool

Are you sure that this is the case as what are the chances of jcp's being closed these days. I think there would be a riot. There must be more reasons for accepting backdated jsa claims.

Its hard at the moment to find work. I have sent over 200 applications and all I was getting was no's then I thought of an idea and I am now self employed with a contract coming soon. I just don't think there is any point what's so ever working as employee in this country anymore unless you work in sales with commission and a basic salary.

Its going to be even easier for bosses to sack people soon and its an option I would suggest many people should take to help us all out of this mess.

MX5huggy

They are closed very often every Saturday, Sunday and all bank holidays if you need to make a claim starting on one of these days, you make the claim the next working day and back date it 1 or 2 days.

There are more reasons, what reason did you give?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1997/793/regulation/6/made

(4) Subject to paragraph (8), in the case of a claim for income support, jobseeker’s allowance, family credit or disability working allowance, where the claim is not made within the time specified for that benefit in Schedule 4, the prescribed time for claiming the benefit shall be extended, subject to a maximum extension of three months, to the date on which the claim is made, where—

(a)any of the circumstances specified in paragraph (5) applies or has applied to the claimant; and

(b)as a result of that circumstance or those circumstances the claimant could not reasonably have been expected to make the claim earlier.

(5) The circumstances referred to in paragraph (4) are—

(a)the claimant has difficulty communicating because—

(i)he has learning, language or literacy difficulties; or

(ii)he is deaf or blind,

and it was not reasonably practicable for the claimant to obtain assistance from another person to make his claim;

(b)except in the case of a claim for jobseeker’s allowance, the claimant was ill or disabled, and it was not reasonably practicable for the claimant to obtain assistance from another person to make his claim;

(c)the claimant was caring for a person who is ill or disabled, and it was not reasonably practicable for the claimant to obtain assistance from another person to make his claim;

(d)the claimant was given information by an officer of the Department of Social Security or of the Department for Education and Employment which led the claimant to believe that a claim for benefit would not succeed;

(e)the claimant was given written advice by a solicitor or other professional adviser, a medical practitioner, a local authority, or a person working in a Citizens Advice Bureau or a similar advice agency, which led the claimant to believe that a claim for benefit would not succeed;

(f)the claimant or his partner was given written information about his income or capital by his employer or former employer, or by a bank or building society, which led the claimant to believe that a claim for benefit would not succeed;

(g)the claimant was required to deal with a domestic emergency affecting him and it was not reasonably practicable for him to obtain assistance from another person to make his claim; or

(h)the claimant was prevented by adverse weather conditions from attending the appropriate office.

(6) In the case of a claim for income support, jobseeker’s allowance, family credit or disability working allowance, where—

(a)the claim is not made within the time specified for that benefit in Schedule 4, but is made within one month of the expiry of that time; and

(b)the Secretary of State considers that to do so would be consistent with the proper administration of benefit,

the Secretary of State may direct that the prescribed time for claiming shall be extended by such period as he considers appropriate, subject to a maximum of one month, where any of the circumstances specified in paragraph (7) applies.

(7) The circumstances referred to in paragraph (6) are—

(a)the appropriate office where the claimant would be expected to make a claim was closed and alternative arrangements were not available;

(b)the claimant was unable to attend the appropriate office due to difficulties with his normal mode of transport and there was no reasonable alternative available;

(c)there were adverse postal conditions;

(d)the claimant was previously in receipt of another benefit, and notification of expiry of entitlement to that benefit was not sent to the claimant before the date that his entitlement expired;

(e)in the case of a claim for family credit, the claimant had previously been entitled to income support or jobseeker’s allowance (“the previous benefit”), and the claim for family credit was made within one month of expiry of entitlement to the previous benefit;

(f)except in the case of a claim for family credit or disability working allowance, the claimant had ceased to be a member of a married or unmarried couple within the period of one month before the claim was made; or

(g)during the period of one month before the claim was made a close relative of the claimant had died, and for this purpose “close relative” means partner, parent, son, daughter, brother or sister.

dmliverpool

So these are all related to physical barriers in being able to claim?

dugdale_2

Could also make a claim online - my internet connection still works on weekends and bank holidays

villabadger

Can't offer any help regarding any claiming but.... why do you have to wait for your utr number to be able to start work? As you mention 'cis' then you must be getting work within construction. I know it can take up to 8 weeks to get your number but it shouldn't stop any contractor from taking you on. Worse case, hmrc will just make the contractor stop you 30% rather than 20% tax until you can get fully approved with your utr. This is what I've done in the past without any problems.

Oh - don't forget to get your own public liability insurance.

Hope this helps!

System

You shouldn't have registered as self-employed if you haven't actually started working. You are required to provide a date of commencement before HMRC will issue a UTR.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/selfemployed/register-selfemp.htm

As villabadger said you do not have to wait for a UTR to commence working for a contractor as they are obliged to make CIS deductions at the rate of 30% until they are able to verify you with HMRC.

dmliverpool

In response to Pam17,

This is just the way the contractor and many others I have come across work. Although I have not physically started working I am actually doing a lot of my business planning now and gaining other contracts for dates which fall after I complete my initial set of contracts, creating continuity in my work stream.

Things such as setting up business bank accounts, designing my website, setting out my terms and conditions, appointing a solicitor and much more things that as an employee you would come to expect from an employer that will already be in place.

The downside to doing it this way is that I am currently paying £2.40 per week in NIC even though I have not actually earned anything. This will change in a few weeks and paying 13 weeks worth of NIC isn't going to break the balance.

It was the only way that I could do it, without registering before actually doing the work then there is no way I could get the contract work I am doing. This policy is flawed and has much red tap (it's actually because HMRC can't be bothered with soft stuff like business set up and are more concerned with collected tax) and in a way hampers a lot of start ups.

For me, when I tried to gain relevant information that is to do with my situation via HMRC, the very same situation so many other people will be going through right now, it did put me off. Especially when the government states very clearly that it wants growth to improve via the private sector but has unhelpful practical policy in operation today. (We won't mention recent news on our ecomony as thats a long political point and is distracting for me)

I have written to my MP to help raise this concern, especially in the this current climate. Employers are just using employees and will have even stronger powers to sack people soon, so you have to ask yourself is it worth it, is my job actually secure (in the private sector or not) and many like minded people will think of working for themselves over the next few months but will come across this problems when they start to market themselves and start to approach potential contractors.

Also it doesn't sound very professional to a contractor if you approach them as a sole trader that isn't even registered, they may think it is poor business planning to be even approaching them which could then lead to another sole trader (as there are millions out there) to steal your contract even though you are better for the job and in some cases cheaper.:o

Can I ask Pam17 if she is self employed or had any experience of gaining or giving out contracts to specifically sole traders? Or are you just following the information via the HMRC website and currently an employee? (no pun or aguements intended);)