Do the donkey work myself or?

HXDave

malkie:

You appear to be unable to defend your earlier claim which was " TA will also give you FULL FINANCIAL PROTECTION in the event of any company going bust, together with altering all the other elements should something change.".

Simple - its called ATOL PROTECTION. When booking a ATOL bonded package holiday through a travel agent, and the supplier of the holiday goes bust, all monies paid are protected. 100% gauranteed. I do not know if your travel insurance will cover if a tour operator / airline / hotel supplier goes bust or not. some may, some may not.

Quote:
Recieves a phone call from area manager requesting help with a city break booking. had been booked with 1 letter incorrect in just 1 surname on a booking of 4 to paris, and asked if i could help. The manager of the branch it was booked in tried, and was told it would cost £300 to change (£75 per person).
Classic case of TA nonsense - why is each person charged for a change to one persons itinerary? Besides, is the best example you've got that you can edit a database which is fully editable, but companys charge a premium to avoid speculators.

I've had no problem or cost making slight changes to bookings in the past by contacting the companies directly.

Why is this classic case TA nonsense? The charge of £75.00 per person was a price levied by the AIRLINE (not the travel agent, and not the tour operator), but the airline. The reason being was thath the flight booking had to be cancelled and re-booked, hence all 4 passengers had to cancel & all 4 passengers had to re-book. officially the fare was non changeable at all, and really should have been cancelled at full fare and re-booked with new tickets being paid for, however BA allowed it to be done at a £75.00 per ticket re-issue charge. Yes, it might seem like a slight change to you or me, but airlines see things differently, and would be suprised if even you could get them to move. Look at it this way, changing a flight from thursday to friday might only be a slight change to you or me, but ask anyone at any of the LCC, and once it's booked, it's a big issue.

But I wouldn't class you (TAs in general) as being highly trained experts. I certainly don't think searching a database then adding 25% on top really qualifies as specialist training.

1st sentance first. So we are not highly trained experts? maybe not highly trained, but certainly trained to do the job we do, and to do the service we offer. And it certainly proves it when people get caught out, either due to their own misgivings or oter events beyond their control.

Now on the 2nd sentence, i'm a little confused as to how you think us travel agents operate. perhaps i should clear some things up. There are a number of 'online' travel agents who work on a system that is called 'Dynamic Packaging'. basically doing what you do - they book the flight seperately, accommodation seperately and transfers seperately. this is then presented in 1 of 2 ways. they can sell the 3 (or however many you chose) seperate elements to you as seperate elements in order to provide the cheapest cost. on top of this, they will place a booking fee to cover their costs. Alternatively, they may present it to you as a ATOL PROTECTED package, with an ATOL fee applied, meaning that if anything went wrong with the holiday elements (eg Goldtrail collapse, Kiss flights collapse, Volcanic Ash Cloud), everything was protected financially. Unfortunately, in order to get as cheap as possible, most tend to offer the first option. In either case, the 'travel agent' can effectively add their own booking fee / mark up.

The majority of 'High Street' retailers will just sell packages that have been provided through the likes of Thomson, Thomas Cook, Cosmos, Jet2, Olympic etc etc etc. In these cases, we are given a price by the tour operator that is very difficult to mark up, as they have already included a portion of the holiday cost as commission (anything from 5% - 15%). However whatever price the tour operator states is the amount that shows on the holiday invoice that the customer will recieve, and if it shows that we have charged more (even £1) than whats on the invoice, gauranteed that we will get questioned why. So the travel agent in the OP has not inflated the price in order to make a massive profit, they have just passed on the price that has been given to them by the tour operator. many people moan at travel agents when prices are high thinking that we make the prices up - WE DONT! in fact, i wish we did, it would make things much much easier for us. Add this to the fact that 95% of tour operators will then undercut us agents on their own websites makes things even harder.

I don't class paying a premium for someone to book my flights for me as "the comfort in knowing that it is being done properly". They are two entirely different things.

Really. Tell that to the young couple who, a few years ago, found out at the cost that there is also a Sydney airport in Canada, as well as Australia. Or to a client i once was dealing with a few years ago who was adamant that a holiday she was looking at (with the operator of the company i was working for) was availble for 2 weeks even though i said it was only availble for 1 week. After being adamant it was availble for 2 weeks on the date she wanted because she was looking at it there and then on the internet, i asked her how much it was showing. After giving me the price, i checked on the consumer website and found exactly what she was looking at, at exactly the same price. Problem being - it was only for 1 week, not 2.

so yes, you may pay a little extra for the knowledge of someone who knows what they are doing, but as mentioned above, the amount you pay is not, in the majority of cases, determined by the TA themselves.

HXDave

duchy

Speaking as an ex travel agent......and as someone who is now paid to mystery shop travel agents -I see very little that supports "highly" trained and often trained is a stretch too. The majority of travel agents I encounter (and from the description of size his "miniple" may very well be one I mystery shop) have limited product knowledge and cannot offer anything not available on-line. I often find my knowledge of a product (even places I haven't visited but merely read up on before doing a mystery shop) vastly exceeds the knowledge of the counter staff .
When I encounter a good agent-with proper knowledge and good sales skills I am surprised but happy as they are so rare in my experience nowdays.

Even after I left the industry I was an advocate of good travel agents-but in all honesty standards have dropped so low now in retail travel and vertical selling is so rife that most people are better off using the net and a good insurance policy that recognises independent arrangements.

malkie76

Simple - its called ATOL PROTECTION. When booking a ATOL bonded package holiday through a travel agent, and the supplier of the holiday goes bust, all monies paid are protected. 100% gauranteed. I do not know if your travel insurance will cover if a tour operator / airline / hotel supplier goes bust or not. some may, some may not.

You've shot yourself in the foot there somewhat by exactly highlighting the point I'm making.

I must ask again, what do you offer which cannot be covered by an insurance policy? Everything you've highlighted can be covered by insurance. If the answer is "we don't actually provide anything special" then please just be honest about it.

There are also many threads on here of people lost as ATOL tells them to claim on insurance while their insurance tells them to claim on ATOL. Sounds like ATOL are very quick to pass the buck when it comes to reembursment.

maybe not highly trained, but certainly trained to do the job we do, and to do the service we offer.

So exactly what specialist service do you offer which cannot be researched on the internet in minutes?

Tell that to the young couple who, a few years ago, found out at the cost that there is also a Sydney airport in Canada, as well as Australia.

Numpties who can't use the internet ? Got on a bus in Dundee and expected to get off in Perth Australia ?

So, can you explain what specialist service you offer, and what protection you provide which cannot be alternatively found?

HXDave

duchy,

whilst this may seem very very strange to hear, i actually agree with what you say. The vast majority of 'high street agents' (both multiples & miniples - i was Travelworld BTW) get young, good looking, female staff and basically brain wash them into their product. eat thomson, sleep thomson, make love to your other half thomson etc etc etc. Through the 20 plus years i have worked in the industry, i have seen this. Starting rom a very small independant, then that company being bought out by a bigger one, then same happening again, i ended up working for Going Places. Fair enough, they were a good company to work for - dont get me wrong, i really enjoyed the time i worked there. however it was clear of what they were doing, and how they worked. They had managers in offices that did not know how to sell holidays as they were there to 'manage' the office, where as all the Travelworld managers always got stuck into holiday bookings where they could.

After leaving GP, i moved to a very small independant agency which is part of a franchise. So we run the office as we like (we set opening / closing times, put out what brochures we want, do the windows how we please) however we still have a 'head office' which deals with all our commercial, marketing & accountancy worries, just like working for a big company. After coming back to the independant agency, i realised how much i had missed it from the good old days, and it was so much fun to be back in an office where you have much more control over what you can do. You also find that the staff in the independant agencies are not the slim, blonde haired, pearly white teethed 18 - 25 year olds you find in the multiples. However what you will find is that they are more experienced, trained, knowledgable and understanding.

Perhaps if the OP went to a more independant agency, rather than a 'vertically integrated' agent, they may find service & choice of availability / prices a lot lot better.

HXDave

HXDave

malkie:

Quote:
Simple - its called ATOL PROTECTION. When booking a ATOL bonded package holiday through a travel agent, and the supplier of the holiday goes bust, all monies paid are protected. 100% gauranteed. I do not know if your travel insurance will cover if a tour operator / airline / hotel supplier goes bust or not. some may, some may not.
You've shot yourself in the foot there somewhat by exactly highlighting the point I'm making.

Dont follow what you say here? are you implying that i am saying that insurance companies will cover if a company goes bust? (ie some might, and some might not). if this is the case, then i agree with you. some insurance companies may cover this, or parts of this. after all, if you book a flight with AIRLINE Z and accommodation through HOTELS'R'US and AIRLINE Z goes bust, you might be covered by the insurance for the cost. But what about the hotel company, and the hotel booking you have and maybe not able to get another flight to tie in with the dates. Will the insurance company cover again if the hotel advises 2 days before travel that they are closing for refurb, closing down, or overbooked. Will the insurance company cover both parts (flight & accomm) if this happens? I agree some might, but an awful lot wont. With ATOL, your covered whichever way.

I must ask again, what do you offer which cannot be covered by an insurance policy? Everything you've highlighted can be covered by insurance. If the answer is "we don't actually provide anything special" then please just be honest about it.

In all fairness, anything and everything can be covered by insurance if you want to specifically insure against it. However being on a ATOL packaged holiday ensures that you have exactly what you need to cover that holiday 'financially', should the holiday company go bust. It also ensures that you will be repatriated without additional charge should your holiday company go bust whilst on holiday, and that you can stay in your package booked accommodation as the costs will be covered by the CAA Bond (although admittedly, trying to get this message across to some foreign hoteliers can be tricky).

Numpties who can't use the internet ? Got on a bus in Dundee and expected to get off in Perth Australia ?

Obviously they can use the internet, because they booked & paid for flights online. it was just unfortunate that they didn't realise there was more than 1 sydney in the world, and they just happened to click on the wrong one.

So, can you explain what specialist service you offer, and what protection you provide which cannot be alternatively found?

Where have i said i offer a specialist service? I offer a service - a service of booking holidays like many other people do. and what protection can i offer that cannot be alternatively found? well, like i said before, effectively you can insure against anything and everything provided you know you need that element within the insurance policy. However when people book with me, they have no need to get a specialist travel insurance to cover airlines going bust, tour operators going bust, being stranded abroad due to airline / tour operator going bust, having to pay additional costs for accommodation due to return flights being cancelled because of fog / snow / volcanic ash / industrial action.

There are also many threads on here of people lost as ATOL tells them to claim on insurance while their insurance tells them to claim on ATOL. Sounds like ATOL are very quick to pass the buck when it comes to reembursment.

This is another misconception of when people book on the internet, and when the company puts the elements together. let me explain:

INTERNETHOLS books a flight only with Kiss Flights (Kiss flights holds an ATOL licence). They then book hotel with HOTELS'R'US seperately, and then transfers. at this point, they may ATOL package the booking, by applying an ATOL protection fee, they may not. this creates 2 scenarios:

1. If INTERNETHOLS have sold it as 3 seperate elements, then the ATOL protection will only apply to the flight only element of the bookin. effectively, the other elements are not tied in with the flights, as they are on seperate references.

2. If INTERNETHOLIDAYS did actually apply an ATOL protection fee, then effectively INTERNETHOLIDAYS are classed as the 'tour opeator' and are responsible for sourcing new flights to complete that element or refunding in full. Effectively, as the ATOL operator has not gone bust (in this case INTERNETHOLIDAUYS), there is no need for ATOL to get on board.

The trouble is that these companies are very very quick to take lots & lots of bookings whilst the money is coming in, however when something like the Goldtrail & Kiss flights collapsed in close succession, they have neither the staff or more likely the funds to sort things out like they should. With a proper ATOL package holiday with someone like Olympic Holidays (I am using them as they do not have their own airline), should the flight company they use for a package all of a sudden go bust (the airline, not Olympic the operator), Olympic Holidays will either re-source another airline & aircraft to operate the flight, or cancel the holiday with a FULL & IMMEDIATE refund.


So i take it that we will agree to disagree on our points. Like i mentioned earlier, i have no quarms with people booking their own holidays, or the way that they do it. in fact my mother does exactly the same, and books her holidays online through OTB. However thinking about it now, who was the first person she rang when after getting to the airport to check in, found out that the easyjet flight had been cancelled due to the spanish ATC strike? Was it OTB holiday? No, it wasn't. i'll leave it to you as to come up with who she called!

Anyway, i'm off now. Have a good weekend one & all.

HXDave

malkie76

So you conceed that you don't actually offer any specialist service I can't do myself, and also conceed that insurance can cover everything you do.

So it's a simple question; why on earth should anyone give you money?

edit
(and you example are standard coverage on every travel insurance policy I've ever considered, your "some might, some might not" seems really flawed.

melb

Hi Malkie please can you tell me which insurer you use for your travel insurance policy as I would love to cover myself against "any event" while on holiday and have never managed to find one that does so to date. I always book independently so this would be a god send.

malkie76

Can you help me out with a specific example? Do you something which happened to you which you weren't covered against, and I'll check my policy.

edit

Sorry to be vague because I can't give you a straight answer - mostly because I have my main travel policy with Preferential Direct (but a personal bespoke one), and other elements are covered by my life insurance (with Legal & General) and my home insurance (with Aviva).

For the most part a custom policy with Preferential Direct will cover 'any event', but you are more likely to get better compensation linked to you salary and property with your life insurance (should something truely unfortunate occur when travelling).

duchy

Dave -Your experiences sound like mine.
(you forget to mention spray tanned in your description of the average travel agent though )

There will always be a place for the good independant agent who will offer unbiased advice and sell to client need and not by what head office say should be sold this week. I go back even further than you do in the industry ( I was literally born into it-my father part owned a very small chain of agencies and I worked in the business from the age of twelve stamping brochures on Saturdays-by 15 I was booking holidays, continental rail, flights etc and looking back did a far better job of it even then than most multiples do now-it's all about training) . I've seen it go from the number one place to go to book a holiday -to a less than ideal option for many........and it isn't just down to the internet. People want good reliable advice -preferably with first hand knowledge or at least access to that knowledge-The Thomas Cooks of this country don't offer that anymore. I briefly went back to retail travel and couldn't believe what I saw-Staff getting disciplined for making good solid bookings -but not with the "right" company. Too many non Thomas Cook bookings and your job is in jepordy-ridiculous ! I stuck it out a couple of months and left -For someone trained properly in travel it was an embarassment to work there.
People deserve to be sold the holiday best suited to their needs -not the nearest that makes sure the manager gets a bonus.

Oh well I'm ranting now -but I do believe people need to understand the limitations of the chain agencies and why for many they simply can't offer the best deal.

melb

thanks Malkie but can't understand what my holiday insurance could possibly have to do with my employment or life insurance although presumably i could use my "cover away from home" section of my hone insurance if i had it. I would think getting a bespoke insurance quote to cover any eventuality one might encounter while travelling would firstly be prohibitively expensive and, secondly, impossible to achieve as how could you possibly cover every possibly scenario without knowing what might arise. So I think maybe there is no single insurance policy which could cover any event without it costing more than the holiday itself!