Renting from private landlord, just received this - is it legal?

sexki11en

bandofbrothers wrote: »

just dont agree to an appointment that is not acceptable or reasonable.

If you work then agree to an appointment for when you will be home from your place of work.

Well that's no good really, because if they're insisting a reapir needs to be carried out and I can't get out of work and i've signed the paperwork..... My husband and I leave the house at 8am and get back at 6pm at the earliest. I don't know any tradesmen that will work during those times (or at least not at normal rate)

bandofbrothers wrote: »

I would write a letter and send it along with them contract stipulating that you work full time and as such daytime appointment requests would not be reasonable, and that any appointment agreed in the evening and not attended by the LL will incur a fee of £50 from them to you !

I want to know before I go tomorrow is it legal or not. If it isn't, I will happily tell them so and completely cross that section off before signing. I don't think writing a letter as you've suggested above is very grown up, nor will it resolve the situation.

SK x

BitterAndTwisted

Arguing the toss before you've signed the rental agreement could result in the offer being withdrawn and the loss of your holding-deposit, as I'm sure you're aware. Signing the rental-agreement does not suddenly make any of those terms and conditions fair, reasonable or enforceable. In your shoes, if I really wanted this property, I'd sign the rental agreement, do my utmost to prevent any of those charges being levied and if they were just decline to pay them and let the sods take you to court and justify them there.

theartfullodger

B&T absolutely correct re. sexki^^en's approach.

For what is fair & unfair (if unfair therefore unenforceable...) see OFT356... where the OFT detail matters for us all...

http://www.oft.gov.uk/OFTwork/publications/publication-categories/guidance/unfair-terms-consumer/oft356

sonastin

sexki11en wrote: »

If you are unable to be present when a contractor needs to attend the property and you wish for them to be accompanied by a member of our staff, there is a charge of £50 (plus VAT) per hour – minimum charge is £50 plus VAT.

Playing devils advocate - because I think its all a load of BS and unenforcable anyway - I think what this means is if you can't be there and you don't want the contractor letting himself in so you want someone from the LA to let him in they'll charge you for the agent's time. You get it free if you let the contractor in or you're happy for him to pick up the keys and work unaccompanied. Just my initial interpretation of the wording but not something I think they can get away with charging anyway.

franklee

sexki11en wrote: »

If we need to send a contractor to the property for a fault/issue which you should reasonably have resolved by following the instructions given (by way of instruction manual or otherwise), or where there is no fault/ issue found by the contractor, or the fault/issue is determined to have occurred by your actions (e.g. a faulty electrical appliance belonging to you causing the electrics to cut out), then the contractors fee will be payable in full by you.

Let's hope you never get an intermittent fault or a contractor who is unable to diagnose a fault you really think is present - it could get very expensive for you.

N79

I thought I would go through these as some are more unreasonable than others.

sexki11en wrote: »

Interesting. I'd never seen that before (and i've rented now for 15 years) We're about to sign an agreement with a letting agency. The below is an extract from their T's and C's

22. Any additional costs I need to be aware of (if we are managing the property)? There is a charge of £50 (plus VAT) if you lock yourself out of your property and we attend with the management keys to gain you entry.

A charge for this is not unreasonable and, to be honest, GBP50, while expensive, is not off the scale either. I know the issue has been debated here before about whether it is right for a LL to charge for providing emergency keys but the fact remains that it is not unlawful to levy such a charge, so long as it is proportionate to the LL's costs.

If you are unable to be present when a contractor needs to attend the property and you wish for them to be accompanied by a member of our staff, there is a charge of £50 (plus VAT) per hour – minimum charge is £50 plus VAT.

Rubbish - LL can not charge T to meet their S11 obligations, nor can the delegate supervision of repairs to the T. This one is unlawful for all repairs which are LL repairing obligations. It might be acceptable where the work is not part of the LL's repairing obligations but clearly such work would also be "optional" from a T perspective and any LL that charges the T to refresh the paintwork is a muppet who will be looking for new Ts fairly often.

If an appointment is booked in agreement with you and you fail to be present (when reasonable prior notice of cancellation has not been received from you), a cancellation fee of £50 (plus VAT) will be charged.

In principle, a LL could pass on the actual contractor costs of a failed callout. However, this smells of a penalty clause - if there are not costs then nothing can be charged. Further, "reasonable prior notice) is not defined. For these reasons, this one can safely be ignored.

If we are called to the property for a fault/issue which you should reasonably have resolved by following the instructions given (by way of instruction manual or otherwise), or where there is no fault/ issue found by us, or the fault/issue is determined to have occurred by your actions (e.g. a faulty electrical appliance belonging to you causing the electrics to cut out), a fee of £50 (plus VAT) will be charged.

If we need to send a contractor to the property for a fault/issue which you should reasonably have resolved by following the instructions given (by way of instruction manual or otherwise), or where there is no fault/ issue found by the contractor, or the fault/issue is determined to have occurred by your actions (e.g. a faulty electrical appliance belonging to you causing the electrics to cut out), then the contractors fee will be payable in full
by you.

The three cases here have different outcomes. However, the general caveat is that only actually costs can be charged so there may be a problem in justifying the flat GBP50 - which again smells a bit like a penalty. Anyway, giving the LL the benefit of the doubt:
1. Failure to follow instructions. This one comes under the implied covenant to live in the property in a tenant like manner. It is, for example, reasonable to charge a T the costs of an electrician if the "fault" is that the T did not read the instruction manual. Of course, the LL would have to show that the manual was provided and that it was reasonable for the T to read, understand and follow them.
2. Unable to find fault. LL needs to carry the cost of this one unless they can show T acted maliciously. I would argue that the charge can not be justified in this case as acting on Ts reports of repair issues is part of LL's obligations.
3. T's actions (or equipment) causes repairing issue. In this case the T is liable for the repair costs (but only the repair costs and LL's costs in organising it, not some spurious "fee" on top).

Cheques returned to us unpaid will incur a charge of £50 (plus VAT).

LL may pass on actual costs incurred in dealing with a stopped cheque. Depending on their banking costs, GBP50 may not be wide of the mark (business accounts often charge when a cheque bounces).

sexki11en

Thanks for all the above responses. It is not the LL imposing these conditions, it is the letting agency.

We are going to follow as advised and sign the paperwork today, try and avoid all costs where possible, but if they do try and charge for any of the above (except the reasonable ones) then we will refuse to pay.

SK x

N79

sexki11en wrote: »

Thanks for all the above responses. It is not the LL imposing these conditions, it is the letting agency.

We are going to follow as advised and sign the paperwork today, try and avoid all costs where possible, but if they do try and charge for any of the above (except the reasonable ones) then we will refuse to pay.

SK x

It is the LL as the agency works for him and represents him. This is a false distinction.

If the LL does not want these costs in the tenancy then all he has to do is tell the agency to remove them........ (and I was not saying that any of them were reasonable, just that some might be justifiable while others are clearly not).

dizziblonde

We had a similar charge if you lock yourself out and need the management keys (think ours was £30 or something). Having said that - I've spent the last 2 years bailing them out for viewings and appointments and stuff since they've successfully lost THEIR keys... damnit - shoulda charged THEM £30 a pop!