My New Van is thirstier than my old!

alun4

In October, I took delivery of a new Mercedes Vito 115 Dualiner Sport trim.
My old was a 2006 Mercedes Vito Dualiner 115 comfort trim. Both have the same Mercedes Automatic Tiptronic gear box. I have checked with the local Mercedes dealer and "sport" is a trim spec put on in UK after manufacture. It comprises chrome bits, side step bars, and 17" alloys instead of 16" steel on the old one. The only interior differences seem to be I have "air con" (which I haven't used much) as opposed to "full digital climate" in the old which was used more.
I also used to carry needless weight all year in the old as I had such good mileage returns (snow chains, tools etc). I haven't even put my day to day tools in the new van as it frightens me !
The cumulative "since reset" is now 25.9 mpg over the last 2500 miles where as I was showing 34 to 35 mpg on the old (all its life of 130000 miles).
I am not an aggressive driver. Indeed, I like to think I read the road ahead well enough to minimize throttle/brake to a minimum and the journeys are similar in both vehicles.
My thoughts are that something (a management system) is not working properly but Mercedes are reluctant to help saying things like ... "The tyres are wider" and "It has been very cold" .

Any money savers have thoughts I could take to Merc as I believe the vehicle should be the same not worse after 5 years. (Note this is the same engine not the new Euro 5 engine on the vans sold from December 2010) ?

hubert_cumberdale

has it got the same cats and other eco friendly crap underneath these are the worst things for fuel useage

- if they have upped the amount of gadgets in the exhaust system then this may use more.
- are the gear ratios the same maybe they altered them slightly for more acceleration thus increasing revs while cruising
- is it the same shape maybe its less slippery through the air.
- wider tires could use more fuel more friction and weight to drag about
- 17" wheels should give a lower rpm at for example 70 than before ( techincally using less) if rolling circumfrance is bigger
- 17" wheels will make acceleration harder work (again if they are bigger than 16" wheels, it depends on the profile of tires)


how does it fair against these im not sure the exact model you have as there are different powered 115's
whats odd is mercedes dont list a automatic 115 was this an extra option you paid for maybe the engine doesnt like the auto box or its ratio'd incorrectly for it

http://www2.mercedes-benz.co.uk/content/media_library/unitedkingdom/mpc_unitedkingdom/ng_vans/new_vans/downloads/vito_fuel_consumption.object-Single-MEDIA.download.tmp/Vito%20EU4%2001%2006%2009%20-%20VCA%20Fuel%20Database.pdf

colino

It could just be a combination of the colder weather and that it is a new "tight" engine. Your gentle driving style may incidentally increase the mileage to bed in the new engine, sometimes a good thrash down the motorway works wonders!

alun4

hubert_cumberdale wrote: »

has it got the same cats and other eco friendly crap underneath these are the worst things for fuel useage

- if they have upped the amount of gadgets in the exhaust system then this may use more.
- are the gear ratios the same maybe they altered them slightly for more acceleration thus increasing revs while cruising
- is it the same shape maybe its less slippery through the air.
- wider tires could use more fuel more friction and weight to drag about
- 17" wheels should give a lower rpm at for example 70 than before ( techincally using less) if rolling circumfrance is bigger
- 17" wheels will make acceleration harder work (again if they are bigger than 16" wheels, it depends on the profile of tires)


how does it fair against these im not sure the exact model you have as there are different powered 115's
whats odd is mercedes dont list a automatic 115 was this an extra option you paid for maybe the engine doesnt like the auto box or its ratio'd incorrectly for it

http://www2.mercedes-benz.co.uk/content/media_library/unitedkingdom/mpc_unitedkingdom/ng_vans/new_vans/downloads/vito_fuel_consumption.object-Single-MEDIA.download.tmp/Vito%20EU4%2001%2006%2009%20-%20VCA%20Fuel%20Database.pdf

The 17" wheels carry a lower profile tyre, so the overall diameter is not hugely different (although enough to need new snow chains!).
The only external difference is the mirror sizes are smaller on the new (apart from the side step bars. The rest is chrome grill instead of plastic, so no difference.

The link is very interesting.As you observe they do not list the automatic so I guess it is an option. I haven't seen many demonstrators at dealers that haven't got the automatic option and it is excellent for work driving. The three 115 models developing 110KW are the different lengths, I think. The Compact, the LWB (mine) and there is an extra LWB. Both my vehicles have had cruise control. It was interesting to see the figures as they were a reflection of what I achieved in the old van.
I want to gather as much opinion so I can ask the "right" questions.

hubert_cumberdale

do you have a hand book with both vans to see what the gear ratios are

bigjl

We had 2.7 CDi Sprinters(416 CDi) with Autobox since 2003, they are starting to buy new Ambulances with a 2.2CDi engine (515CDi last year and 516CDi this year) the new ones are doing less to the gallon than the 2.7's, though the new ones are slightly heavier.

The most significant thing is that the new ones have a DPF and are Euro5.

I think the Euro5 and DPF is more than likely the reason for your reduced fuel consumption.

Not sure, but I believe that the DPF is regenerated in a similar way to that in the Fiat, Vauxhall, Saab cars in that the engine injects extra diesel into the cylinders to increase the temperature in the DPF and to therefore burn of the deposits.

I think the new CNG Sprinter is a better idea. Rather than a diesel with a DPF.

alun4

hubert_cumberdale wrote: »

do you have a hand book with both vans to see what the gear ratios are

Regret, no. The old van and handbook were handed to the dealership on exchange.

alun4

bigjl wrote: »

We had 2.7 CDi Sprinters(416 CDi) with Autobox since 2003, they are starting to buy new Ambulances with a 2.2CDi engine (515CDi last year and 516CDi this year) the new ones are doing less to the gallon than the 2.7's, though the new ones are slightly heavier.

The most significant thing is that the new ones have a DPF and are Euro5.

I think the Euro5 and DPF is more than likely the reason for your reduced fuel consumption.

Not sure, but I believe that the DPF is regenerated in a similar way to that in the Fiat, Vauxhall, Saab cars in that the engine injects extra diesel into the cylinders to increase the temperature in the DPF and to therefore burn of the deposits.

I think the new CNG Sprinter is a better idea. Rather than a diesel with a DPF.

My new Vito was one of the last Euro 4 versions so I should be comparing like with like.

hubert_cumberdale

the DPF are a bit silly they make your emission cleaner but make you use more fuel so it probably balances out to the shame dirt coming out the vehicle

have you ever seen one getting unblocked i saw a vauxhall one doing the regen thing and it melted the tarmac under it !!!!!!

bigjl

alun4 wrote: »

My new Vito was one of the last Euro 4 versions so I should be comparing like with like.

I would check that as we have been told that the Sprinters that where bought over a year ago where Euro5.

Though you may have struck lucky with an old stock van.

I was told by somebody in the know that the Autobox fitted to the more recent ones, 2008/9 onwards is not the same as that put in the older ones, it isn't as robust. Abd certainly seems to rev the engine a lot harder than the older box, but that could be down to the lack of torque in the 2.2 compared to the beafy 2.7.

And considering we have had around 400 of the old 2.7 Sprinters with only a few gearbox issues, and the new ones have already got some issues with the gearboxes within the first year of use does make me think this is true.

Maybe Merc where losing profit. I was told the gearboxes are £4000 a throw:eek:

bigjl

hubert_cumberdale wrote: »

the DPF are a bit silly they make your emission cleaner but make you use more fuel so it probably balances out to the shame dirt coming out the vehicle

have you ever seen one getting unblocked i saw a vauxhall one doing the regen thing and it melted the tarmac under it !!!!!!

More than one of the Zafiras in my service has a slighty melted back bumper, one of the cycle responders brushed his leg against one when squeezing past it in the garage and burnt his leg when it brushed the end of the tailpipe. The car had been switched off before he entered the garage and he didn't know it had been used.