Halifax Clarity card - Avoiding any interest at all on travel cash

chattychappy

OK... there can't be many MSEers in Vietnam.. but here goes from your man on the spot. Avoiding a few pence on interest pales into insignificance compared with other factors.

ATM charge
The typical charge in VN is 1%. Note - regardless of what Clarity (or any other card says), you will pay this as it's applied locally. I've found HSBC the most reliable, though Vietcombank and ANZ also generally work. HSBC machines are found pretty much everywhere in the main cities. A number of them are inside foyers with a security man nearby. That's the way to go. DO make sure you understand the currency. Very roughly 4 million dong is £133 and is a suitable amount to withdraw. That is 4000000, ie 4 and 6 zeros. Easy to get confused if you're unfamiliar.

Rate
You will generally get a better rate changing cash locally than via the bank system. For several days now you can get VND32,000 to the pound at bureau de change. This compares with VND29,658 I got on Zero last week - ie a difference of about 7%. Note when I say "cash locally" I'm talking about proper licensed bureau de change. These don't charge commission or handling charges. You can sometimes do better with unofficial money changers, but it's not worth the risk. The gap does fluctuate, particularly in the run up to Tet (the lunar new year).

Clarity rate
I know Zero to be a genuinely unloaded card - Clarity is supposed to be as well. But check my post in https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2992340 and the thread linked to for someone's experience in Thailand.

Whatever the Post Office say, I'd be amazed if they could actually deliver VND. It is tightly restricted and sources of currency outside Vietnam tend to be unofficial and/or unreliable. I do know it's available in a few places in Bangkok and Phnom Penh. But anyway - I see that the Thomas Exchange site is offering VND26,000 - almost 20% off the "real" rate!

Ideally the best way is to take GBP cash (£20s and £50s - must be untorn, and ideally unwritten on). Obviously you have to weigh the risk of losing cash.

Bear in mind that cards get blocked too. Never used to have a problem with Zero, but recently every transaction has caused it get blocked afterwards. So whatever you do, have backups.

There is no need to bring USD here. The only exception I can think of is if you arrange for a visa on arrival where the fee is payable in USD.

chattychappy

lisyloo wrote: »

c) a sophisticated person could set up a fake website via a hotspot that looks identical to your banking site with NO security and take your details.

We've been around that one before - fake hotspots, fake websites etc. Not an issue and I've depended on public wifi for years. And trust me, nobody in here could be bothered to try it anyway (easier just to snatch your bag). And if they did, and they fooled you, well as per the lending code you're not responsible for fraudulent transactions UNLESS the provider can prove gross negligence.

dtaylor84

lisyloo wrote: »

c) a sophisticated person could set up a fake website via a hotspot that looks identical to your banking site with NO security and take your details.

They could if you are using a PC in an internet cafe. If you're using your own laptop, then that is impossible if you take the appropriate precautions.

chattychappy

OP:

If you do use Clarity in Vietnam, I wonder if you could post the transaction amount in VND, the date (ideally the date they converted it), and the amount in GBP you were charged?

It would be really useful to know if there is an issue over the rate people get. I might even get one myself next time I'm back given the problems I've had with Zero recently.

Thanks..

michaels

With the positive repayment hierarchy rules would the best thing be to run up a large within billing cycle purchase balance prior to departure and then also set up credits which will hit on the days you anticipate making cash withdrawals so that the cash withdrawals are paid back instantly when they happen but there is no risk of the card going positive?!

lisyloo

We've been around that one before - fake hotspots, fake websites etc.

We have had some discussion and we still disagree.
I accept what Degenerate says about SSL/trusted certificates having to be verified on true banking sites but not on fake ones.

And if they did, and they fooled you, well as per the lending code you're not responsible for fraudulent transactions UNLESS the provider can prove gross negligence.

Can be a huge amount of hassle to deal with fraud and banks CAN say it's your fault. You may well be correct in that if you go to court or the FOS then you may win in the end eventually. (banks fo get it wrong).
I am not sayihng you are wrong, what I'm saying is that it could be a HUGE hassle for £3 or £4.

If you're using your own laptop, then that is impossible if you take the appropriate precautions.

Can you explain how it's 100% possible to get a fake site asking you for your bankins details?

the best thing be to run up a large within billing cycle purchase balance prior to departure and then also set up credits which will hit on the days you anticipate making cash withdrawals so that the cash withdrawals are paid back instantly when they happen but there is no risk of the card going positive?!

I don't think you can predict this.
I went to Egypt.
The two machines at the airport didn't work for me (don't know why).
The ATM at the hotel was broke.
Didn't get cash for several days.
Why take the risk to say £3 or £4 when the consequence of going in credit is getting your card stopped.
If you are going to the devloping world then don't expect everthing to work like clockwork. It just doesn't.

crispy_chris

I just inadvertently pre-loaded my Halifax Clarity card. Paid my bill manually in full on the 7th Jan and the direct debit went out today taking the same amount again, putting my clarity well into credit.
I gave them a call as I know they dont like this sort of thing and they said either I can just leave it in a credit balance or get the money refunded. I just told them to leave it in credit.

I don't see any reason why you couldnt manufacture this circumstance just before you went abroad?

chattychappy

lisyloo wrote: »

Can you explain how it's 100% possible to get a fake site asking you for your bankins details?

The sites I use never ask a complete set of details when you log in. (Eg 3 letters out of a 6 letter password). Also some require card readers to perform transactions (eg Nationwide), others reflect back sitekeys (eg MBNA), and others require further details to perform particular transactions (eg make a payment, BT etc). So if you reached a fake site (rather like a phishing scam) it would be immediately obvious it wasn't the real one from what they ask at login OR they wouldn't get the detail they need. Finally, if using your own computer, some banks offer the "rapport" software to overcome the risk of being redirected to the wrong site.

If taking a short break, there probably is no need to check your account / make payments. But for longer trips, I think the real risk is fraudulent transactions of another sort, eg skimming cards - bear in mind that most of Asia doesn't use chip'n'pin. By checking your account online you can sort this stuff earlier, getting a card stopped if necessary. So if you're talking about hassle factors rather than legal liability, the balance is still in favour of checking your account for all but short trips. I have certainly picked up fraud this way as well as the odd genuine mistake. Much easier to sort whilst fresh in your mind too.

After years of living overseas and being on the move, I have totally depended on public wifi via my laptop. Very occasionally other PCs too. I have never experienced the kind of scam you describe - in Asia it would be too much of an effort to set up a hotspot just to fake a British banking site just in case someone from the UK logs in. The real scams are phishing emails, key loggers to pick up details whilst shopping online etc. But in Vietnam, the biggest risks are: 1) men in gangster-run dodgy girlie bars/short time hotels paying up under duress, 2) skimming, 3) motorbike snatches.

dzug1

crispy_chris wrote: »

I just inadvertently pre-loaded my Halifax Clarity card. Paid my bill manually in full on the 7th Jan and the direct debit went out today taking the same amount again, putting my clarity well into credit.
I gave them a call as I know they dont like this sort of thing and they said either I can just leave it in a credit balance or get the money refunded. I just told them to leave it in credit.

I don't see any reason why you couldnt manufacture this circumstance just before you went abroad?

Could well depend on how much you 'preload'. £50 or so probably wouldn't concern them. £1000 or so might.

chattychappy

crispy_chris wrote: »

I just inadvertently pre-loaded my Halifax Clarity card. Paid my bill manually in full on the 7th Jan and the direct debit went out today taking the same amount again, putting my clarity well into credit.
I gave them a call as I know they dont like this sort of thing and they said either I can just leave it in a credit balance or get the money refunded. I just told them to leave it in credit.

I don't see any reason why you couldnt manufacture this circumstance just before you went abroad?

Yep, and I've ended up with credit on other cards too. It's just unpredictable - you can't rely on it working. If your alternative to Clarity is a normal card charging 2.75% loading + 3% fee, then I think I'd rather pay a little to Clarity rather than risk having it stopped and being forced to pay alot more to someone else - even though as you've found it probably wouldn't be stopped.

Fraud monitoring systems can be a pain - after years of not really having a problem, Zero are effectively blocking my card after each transaction at the moment. I ring them up, talk through the transactions (another reason why it's handy to log on whilst away) and they unblock. This is an expensive procedure if you don't have something like Skype. But I've heard the story alot recently - cards are just getting blocked as the result of innocuous transactions. So to me it's somewhat esoteric to be debating how to avoid a little interest here or there, the real issue is to travel with robust backups which won't cost you an arm and a leg.